Topic: Is output level of 0 the equivalent of 100% volume into headphones?

Hi folks,

I'm using a Babyface Pro and Totalmix FX to mix some audio. I'm just getting it all setup, and right now the only thing producing audio that I'd like to hear is the PC itself.

On the PC, the default playback device is set to the Analog 3/4 channel playback device, which shows up as headphones. So, in Totalmix, my PC's audio shows up under the PH 3/4 software playback channel. The volume level for this playback device is set to 50% (I notice the AN 1/2, which shows up as Speakers, is set to 100%).

On Totalmix FX, if i have the volume level of the headphone output set to 0, is that the same as saying the volume is at 100% of the playback device's 50%? So I'm getting a direct representation of the audio coming from the PC? At that point, I would just need to ensure that my PC audio playback device level is set to whatever I'd usually use with PC headphones, right? And then through Totalmix it's all just relative to that?

Re: Is output level of 0 the equivalent of 100% volume into headphones?

I'm not sure if this bumps this or not, but ...

Is the concept in my original post correct? I'm still trying to make sure I understand how to properly set volumes with totalmix.

My issues is that my audio levels are all very low in my recording software, but the channel input LEDs all go into the yellow when I talk slightly louder than normal. I figured, based on those input LEDs, that my levels are all fine there.

Re: Is output level of 0 the equivalent of 100% volume into headphones?

betawarz wrote:

I'm using a Babyface Pro and Totalmix FX to mix some audio. I'm just getting it all setup, and right now the only thing producing audio that I'd like to hear is the PC itself.

You want to hear the PC itself ? What do you mean by this exactly ?

If you should mean that you want to hear non-ASIO aware applications like Windows Operating System and Youtube via Internet Browser, these are the steps to configure it:

1. open RME driver settings dialog (drive icon in the windows info bar on lower rigt on desktop)
2. RME driver settings -> WDM Devices -> Configure
    a) TAB "WDM Devices"
        Create as many WDM devices as you need, usually for these In-/Output ports:
         AN1/2 (mics, monitors) and AN3/4 (phones)
    b) TAB "Speaker"
        Here you select which output port shall be used for generating the "speaker symbol" in the Windows Sound settings
3. Open Windows Sound, look at the 1st TAB "Play" (can only guess names here, I have a german windows version)
    Select the speaker device and assign it as "standard device" for Audio

From now on Windows and all other non-ASIO aware application, who use "Windows Sound" (no matter whether DirectSound or WASAPI is finally chosen), will use this device as standard device for audio (depending on which output port (one or multiple) you selected in Step 2b) as "speaker" device.

Note: TotalMix FX is still a layer in between where you need to decide to which HW Output (one or more) you want to route the Audio finally. So audio shows i.e. up on SW Playback Channel 3/4 (middle row) and now you need to click to the submix "HW Output 3/4" (bottom row) and raise the fader of all HW Input and SW Playback channels, that you want to hear on this HW output, among those ensure that fader of SW Playback AN3/4 (if this was your Speaker device from step 2b) is set to 0dB so that you actually hear the sound.

You should also assign in TM FX (assign button right in the control room section), which HW outputs are "Main Out" and "Phones1". On a BBF Pro normally you would assign AN1/2 as Main Out and AN3/4 as phones.
By this the HW outputs are being moved to the right into the Control room section and its possible now for you to use the control room features for these channels like, DIM, etc ...

betawarz wrote:

On the PC, the default playback device is set to the Analog 3/4 channel playback device, which shows up as headphones. So, in Totalmix, my PC's audio shows up under the PH 3/4 software playback channel. The volume level for this playback device is set to 50% (I notice the AN 1/2, which shows up as Speakers, is set to 100%).

The causality is wrong. 1st you define "speaker" in the RME settings dialog (configuring WDM).
Then a speaker device is availabel in Windows Sound.
Then you assign this device as Windows Sound device.

On TM FX the Software Playback Channel AN3/4 normally should stay on 100% for the Submix HW Output AN3/4.
If you reduce the volume already here at this early stage, then there is not much volume left for the HW output.
It makes only sense to reduce the volume on a SW Playback channel if you create i.e. a special phones mix for recording.

betawarz wrote:

On Totalmix FX, if i have the volume level of the headphone output set to 0, is that the same as saying the volume is at 100% of the playback device's 50%? So I'm getting a direct representation of the audio coming from the PC? At that point, I would just need to ensure that my PC audio playback device level is set to whatever I'd usually use with PC headphones, right? And then through Totalmix it's all just relative to that?

1st of all I assume you misunderstand the basic concept of TM FX, so that you potentially simply raise faders here and there and then strange and unexpected things happen.

1st please ensure in TM FX, that "Submix" mode is enabled (upper right). This is a more user friendly routing mode compared to "Free" routing mode.
Then click to a HW output channel, i.e. AN 3/4. The selection is show by showing the channel in a brighter color.
Now you can raise or lower the faders of HW Inputs and SW Playback Channels to create a submix for the selected HW output.

If you select another HW Output in submix mode, like AN1/2, then you see the whole submix for this particular output by simply watching the fader positions in HW Inputs (top row) and SW playback channels.

Coming back to your setup:
The Windows Sound output arrives at SW Playback channel AN3/4.
In Submix mode select the proper HW Output on which you want to hear sound, in your case HW Output AN3/4 for Phones.
Turn down the volume there to maybe 25% not to damage your ears in the next step.
Set the fader of SW Playback AN3/4 (middle row) to 0 db.
Then carefully raise the fader of HW output AN 3/4 (bottom row) until reaching good listening level.
This routing I would save to Snapshot1 or Snapshot2 (depending on what order you prefer for monitors / phones).
Save also Snapshot and Workspace settings to a file.

In TM FX Preferences (F2) select this, to ensure that BBF Pro will always be initialized with these "sane" volume levels for phones: (x) Always init DSP devices with TotalMix FX settings.

Here is a step by step primer how to setup TotalMix FX, if your are interested.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/

And here a collection of RME Tutorial videos. Very well done "to the point" without wasting any time.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … al-Videos/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

4 (edited by ramses 2019-08-17 09:36:14)

Re: Is output level of 0 the equivalent of 100% volume into headphones?

betawarz wrote:

I'm not sure if this bumps this or not, but ...

Is the concept in my original post correct? I'm still trying to make sure I understand how to properly set volumes with totalmix.

My issues is that my audio levels are all very low in my recording software, but the channel input LEDs all go into the yellow when I talk slightly louder than normal. I figured, based on those input LEDs, that my levels are all fine there.

Did you make sure, that you selected the RME ASIO driver in your DAW ?

Audio coming from HW inputs are always passed through 100% unmodified to the application (DAW).
The fader positions of HW inputs only matters for the TM FX submixes / HW outputs.

Typical mistakes in terms of no or too low level for microphone is:

1. Too low gain setting.
    Click to the "tool icon" of the Mic input channel under HW inputs (top row).
    You need to select the proper gain for the microphone.
    (Note: the TM FX fader position is only for creating the TM FX submixes for HW outputs)

2. forgot to enable phantom power for a condenser mic.
   Note: do not use phantom power for ribbon microphones, this destroys ribbon microphones.
   With RME it is of course possible to enable Phantom power "per mic channel".

3. Speaking into the Microphone from the wrong side.

4. Check your Submix in TM FX
    Usually you want to hear i.e. Mic input with lowest latency coming directly from the HW input.
    Check whether the fader is set to up to 0dB.
    Again, this is only for your Submix in TM FX, the fader position doesnt influence your recording in the DAW.
    This also means, check in the DAW that the Mic Input is not set to monitor not to hear the signal twice.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14