• Registered: 2008-06-15
  • Posts: 68

Topic: hdsp/cardbus/sonnet/startech/thunderbolt, win10: intriguing problem

Well, "intriguing", "confounding", "frustrating"... take your pick.  In any case, I have a multiface with cardbus hdsp card.  I am using the now-seems-standard chain to connect that to a Dell Precision 7740 (really nice music production platform!) thunderbolt 3 connector:

multiface hdsp cardbus -->

cardbus-to-expresscard/34 adapter  -->

expresscard-to-TB2 (Sonnettech Echo Pro)  -->

TB2-to-TB3 (Startech) -->

PC thunderbolt 3 (usb-C connector)

Almost always, it sees the multiface upon boot up.  Cubase can see all the I/O listed.  Sound goes through the device.  Great.

But... I do hear glitches upon playback (at least with buffers up to 256, possible any buffer setting, not sure).

Here's the interesting thing that I hope sparks an idea in someone with more experience with this.  If I enable a second stereo pair of outputs in Cubase, even if I do not use that pair, the audio glitching increases.

And if  then enable a *third* stereo pair of outputs in Cubase, again, even if I don't send any audio to that output pair, the audio completely falls apart in a sea of glitching so bad it almost sounds like ring modulation.

Does this ring any bells?  Is this a thunderbolt subsystem issue?  It doesn't seem like I am overpowering the CPUs (8 cores, turbo to 5ghz).  At least, the Resource Monitor graphs don't appear to be maxing out.

Is it because there is something fundamentally fatal with the older cardbus hdsp?

I have a ticket open with Dell, but there's only so much they can do without being able to duplicate the whole interface and adapter chain.

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,395

Re: hdsp/cardbus/sonnet/startech/thunderbolt, win10: intriguing problem

Chaining with multiple cables can always be a little risky.
What are the cable length summed up ?
You will have most likely more fun to consolitdate into the direction to get the UFX+ and connect via either USB3 or TB.
UFX+ is currently cheap like hell compared to release date.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2008-06-15
  • Posts: 68

Re: hdsp/cardbus/sonnet/startech/thunderbolt, win10: intriguing problem

I'm using short cables... one is about 18 inches, the other maybe 6 inches.  So, two feet total.  And the Fireface UFX+ listings I see are between $2k and $3k... way above my range!  Even the babyface is not a no-brainer given that I haven't yet been able to determine what my problem really is (would that solve it...), and it's missing the adat sync options that the multiface has that I really want to keep if there's any way I can.

Do my symptoms sound like thunderbolt issues?  And if so, does it sound like too-low bandwidth, or bad hardware, bad configuration...??  I have a ticket open with Dell and I'd like to help them out with any debugging suggestions from those in the know about RME, low-latency, real-time audio interfaces.

Thanks for the cable suggestion... unfortunately I suspect 2 feet is short enough to be okay.  :-)

4 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,769

Re: hdsp/cardbus/sonnet/startech/thunderbolt, win10: intriguing problem

Your chain from ExpressCard to TB3 is known to work fabulously. The CardBus is most probably the culprit. Or the CardBus-Express adapter. Some time ago we had posts in the forum which indicated that CardBus wouldn't work under W10 (system drivers missing or broken).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2008-06-15
  • Posts: 68

Re: hdsp/cardbus/sonnet/startech/thunderbolt, win10: intriguing problem

Shoot.  The cardbus-Express adapter has been working great for me in a Win7 laptop (with expresscard slot) for almost a decade now.  So the variables that stand out to me are win10 and the new Dell TB3 subsystem.  Would I likely have better chances if I could find a used hdspe expresscard interface like this:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-aud … xpresscard

and does the above card work with the older Multiface ("1" I guess... it's a steinberg-branded "multiset").  Do I just need a standard firewire cable to connect the two?

They seem to be rare, but the listings I have seen put them at around a few hundred dollars.  I'll spring for that if there is a good chance it will work with what I have.

6 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,769

Re: hdsp/cardbus/sonnet/startech/thunderbolt, win10: intriguing problem

I use that chain with an ExpressCard and Sonnet Echo myself.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2008-06-15
  • Posts: 68

Re: hdsp/cardbus/sonnet/startech/thunderbolt, win10: intriguing problem

Matthias, so is it the case that the hammerfall cardbus card, even when connected through the cardbus-to-express adapter, looks *different* to Windows?  I'm trying to arm myself with as much info as possible as I work with the Dell techs so we can do the most effective debugging and pinning down the problem if possible.

I would be happy to pay the few hundred dollars for the hdspe express card, but I don't know enough yet to have confidence that that will in fact solve these issues.  I don't want to just throw a few hundred dollars out here and there just to try things that may still not work.

Are there known TB3 subsystems that do or do not work with hdspe expresscard (through the Sonnet/Startech adapter chain)?

According to hwinfo, my thunderbolt appears to be:

Intel JHL7540/JHL8040 Titan Ridge/Burnside Bridge Thunderbolt switch and root complex bridge

(If that's the thing I'm supposed to be looking for!)

Thanks for any further insight!

8 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,769

Re: hdsp/cardbus/sonnet/startech/thunderbolt, win10: intriguing problem

I can not answer things that I never tried (CardBus under W10), sorry.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website