1 (edited by composingkeys 2019-11-08 20:54:07)

Topic: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

I have a Mogami Gold Instrument cable into a new Telecaster Fender guitar with knobs on the guitar as high as possible and am finding that if I plug into Input 3 or 4 with -10DBV and Gain of 9 (Max setting), I pretty much stop at -10 max level. I can't figure out why the levels can't be higher? I am on Driver 1.168 and Firmware 101 on Windows 10. I have input 3 and input 4 as mono and panning centered.

I had the exact same issue before in the past with an Ibanez semi hollow body guitar but at the time I figured it was just the guitar but the levels are the same with the new Fender Telecaster.

Any ideas?

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

Hi!

I think, this is standard level for single coil, and relatively low output pickups.
Have you tried a guitar with humbucker? And of higher output?

I record my DI signals at -18, others at -12. I don't think you need more than that for a DI guitar signal, and if you 're using an ampsim of some sort, most of them have an input gain you can increase, if you like!

I don't have a Babyface Pro, though, and when I used to hook my guitar directly to a Hi-Z instrument input, it was through a Presonus Digimax FS, peaking around -10 or -12 at unity level, if I remember correctly(can't check at this time, as I've changed my setup and need to buy some cables). But my pickup is a DiMarzio Evolution, which is a high output humbucker pickup!

Hope this helps! I 'm sure others will chime in, as well!

3 (edited by composingkeys 2019-11-08 22:05:32)

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

Thanks for answering!

It would be interesting to see what you get from your DiMarzio Evolution pickups. I've used a Ibanez Artcore Semihollow body which had Humbuckers and that one also didn't really get higher than -10 DB with my Babyface Pro. Unfortunately due to a fire, the house I had was lost along with the guitar.

I use Overloud THU and there is a Input Low Sensitivity which they recommend for Single Coil Pickups and High Sensitivity for Humbuckers. It does incread the loudness if I put to High Sensitivity but that is going against the recommendation since I have single coil pickups. It just seems like something is wrong when you can't even with everything maxed out reach a level that the amp software thinks is optimal.

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

So a friend of mine has a Strat which is also a Single Coil Pickup guitar using a cheap focusrite audio interface and is able to get plenty of input volume from it.

Anybody else have thoughts on Babyface Pro Input being too low for Guitar?

5

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

What about connecting that Strat to the Babyface first before speculating further?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

6 (edited by composingkeys 2019-11-12 03:03:53)

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

Hi Matthias!

Thanks for replying. I've been a long time RME user originally with the Fireface 400, then the UFX, and now the Babyface Pro.

Unfortunately he is a co-worker and isn't leaving the guitar at the office so I won't be able to access it with the Babyface Pro. We both ordered the guitars directly from Fender which is why it was in the office at the first place. Now, we have the guitars in our own places. The guitars are both American Professional tier so not cheap guitars.

7

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

To rule out a problem in the BF: get a TRS insert cable, plug TRS into phones out and both TS into inputs 3 and 4. Now play back a sine and watch the I/O levels in TotalMix. This way you can easily check that inputs 3 and 4 are working as expected.

We have sold tons of BF Pro world-wide over the years and never heard that it is not sensitive enough for guitars. More the opposite, some people manage to overload the input despite it being set to +4 dBu and 0 dB gain.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

8 (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2019-11-09 20:52:11)

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

composingkeys wrote:

Thanks for answering!

It would be interesting to see what you get from your DiMarzio Evolution pickups. I've used a Ibanez Artcore Semihollow body which had Humbuckers and that one also didn't really get higher than -10 DB with my Babyface Pro. Unfortunately due to a fire, the house I had was lost along with the guitar.

I use Overloud THU and there is a Input Low Sensitivity which they recommend for Single Coil Pickups and High Sensitivity for Humbuckers. It does incread the loudness if I put to High Sensitivity but that is going against the recommendation since I have single coil pickups. It just seems like something is wrong when you can't even with everything maxed out reach a level that the amp software thinks is optimal.

You 're welcome!

I will report back when I try it, as I need to buy a cable to connect my Digimax FS to my Digiface, sometime next week!
Sorry to hear about your house..! And your Ibanez..! Can't even begin to imagine how that felt..
Hope you 've recovered allright!!

Untill I try with my setup, here is a video from youtube where they're using a similar setup to yours(a FireFace UFX and a Fender type guitar) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCBIl_ijHiM

If you notice the level at which he sets the input(input 4 in the video), it's about -13 to -12.

So, you could try what Matthias suggested to check that there is no problem with the BF Pro's input(which I don't think there is any), and if you 're not satisfied with the level, still, you could add a boost pedal or an overdrive pedal used as boost(gain 0, level max).

I use a Blackstar HT-Metal pedal(tube preamp/distortion pedal) with Impulse Responses, to record my guitar!
You could purchase a Fender MTG Distortion(more of an overdrive) to add some tube flavour to your tone! Or a Behringer VT-999 Vintage Monster(tube and also, a noise gate) as a more inexpensive solution(I use that one along with the Blackstar)!
Or any other pedal of that type, that you like!

EDIT: I forgot to suggest, that you should try your input, also with palm muting in the low strings, as the bass frequencies will increase the level as well !

9 (edited by composingkeys 2019-11-14 23:27:55)

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

Hi Matthias,

I did as you suggested and I believe I need to set the inputs to +4DBu for Inputs 3 and 4 correct? I put the gain to 0 on both inputs so they wouldn't be adding anything extra. I put in a TRS cable with 2 mono TS into 3 and 4 inputs and when playing a sine wave inside of Omnisphere 2 (synthesizer virtual instrumnet) the headphones say it is -21.5 and the inputs of 3 and 4 say -20.7 so I assume this is normal? Here is a screenshot.https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/11/15/b45aeba83455b0b4f33cb57e3422cf71-full.jpg

10 (edited by composingkeys 2019-11-14 23:30:57)

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

Thanks so much Metal Head Keys for writing your thoughts and ideas. Rarely, if I hit really really hard with the palm mutes I can get -7.8 or something like that.

I think I'm going to have to get a booster as I can't get the input loud enough as it is on the BF Pro with my Telecaster.

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

You are welcome!

Sorry for late reply, I just saw your post as I didn't have internet access for a few days!
I 'm glad I could help you out!!

I did my tests as well, so I got -10 average, -7 rarely(with heavy picking, palm muting) with my DiMarzio bridge pickup
and -20 average, -17 rarely with my Seymour Duncan, single coil, middle and neck pickups. Add to these +9dB from the BF Pro, and everything fits perfectly into place!!

12

Re: Babyface Pro Instrument Input too low

composingkeys wrote:

Rarely, if I hit really really hard with the palm mutes I can get -7.8 or something like that.

I think I'm going to have to get a booster as I can't get the input loud enough as it is on the BF Pro with my Telecaster.

I just tried my Strat American Elite direct into my BF Pro instrument input.  Normal chord strumming on a single coil gets me to around -12 db with the fader set at 0 and the gain knob set at 4.5.  I use TH-U, and that's plenty of input for me.

But I normally have my guitars running through a wireless (Relay G10) or DI box (ART Tube MP) into the XLR inputs.  Those both drive the XLRs plenty hard that I keep the gain settings much lower to avoid clipping.

I quickly tested the Strat on my Focusrite instrument inputs, and the signal does read a lot hotter on that with the fader at 0 and gain set halfway.  If I turn the gain knob there much past half I start clipping.

Seems to me your Babyface + Fender single coil is behaving about like mine, for what it's worth.