Topic: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

I get frequent audio dropouts when streaming from my MacBook Pro to the RME ADI-2 DAC (using Vox on the MacBook). I fix this by restarting Vox. I'm using a longer USB cable than provided in the box (USB-C as well) as I needed the extra length. I probably need to set up some more scenarios to try and pinpoint the problem (Mac? USB cable? Vox?). Thought I'd ask anyway to see if anyone has had a similar problem, and more importantly, any solutions.

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

I had a problem which was cured by using the other USB port on my MacBook Pro. It's a 2015 model with USB3 ports (rather than USB-C).
It made no real sense to me, but it's completely cured the issue, which is very repeatable on the other port.

Dominic

3 (edited by pgbrown 2019-11-25 03:09:15)

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

I've found the only reliable solution to this is to restart audio in macos by running sudo killall coreaudiod in the terminal. Speaking to myself here but someone may find this beneficial in the future.

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

Unfortunately it not works properly for me and random drops out continue usually until reset of MacBook.
Do you have any other idea?

5 (edited by Universal9069 2023-02-19 07:08:08)

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

I’m struggling with this on a 2020 Macook Pro M1 with Roon. Seems to occur more frequently when several apps (e.g. iterm, safari etc, nothing hugely resource consuming) are open but minimally using CPU or RAM. Been trying to identify if it’s one specific app but haven’t been able to so far.

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

I am kind of relieved to learn that others have the same problem. I am struggling with that issue for more than a year now on my M1 Pro MacBook Pro 14".

As I have AppleCare+, I have gotten in touch with Apple about this bug multiple times – but was never provided with a solution. The problem normally gets worse the longer my computer is running. I don't even want to use the ADI-2 DAC anymore because those audio dropouts are so annoying.

It's really unfortunate. I had also gotten in touch with RME about this issue last year, but they also could not provide a solution.

7

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

Which has a simple reason - there is no RME driver involved. And the hardware itself works flawlessly, as can be proven on other hardware like notebooks, desktop, iPad, Linux, Windows (Class Compliant mode)...

It might be that a complete reinstallation of the OS fixes it, a clean start and checking performance before installing the usual tons of software, apps and tools. Or the hardware is faulty - nobody knows...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

MC wrote:

Which has a simple reason - there is no RME driver involved. And the hardware itself works flawlessly, as can be proven on other hardware like notebooks, desktop, iPad, Linux, Windows (Class Compliant mode)...

It might be that a complete reinstallation of the OS fixes it, a clean start and checking performance before installing the usual tons of software, apps and tools. Or the hardware is faulty - nobody knows...

Thanks for your feedback. I was using using my ADI-2 Pro on a Windows 10 machine before swapping to a brand new M1 Pro Macbook Pro in 2022. I was plugging in my ADI-2 Pro very early on, before a ton of software, apps and tools were installed, and the drop-out started on the first day......

I know that ADI-2 PRO operates driverless on Mac, but is there any chance that the adoption of M1 SoC (which is ARM-based) adversely affect the functioning of the gear?

Macbook | Rega Planet | Technics SL-1200G > RME ADI-2 PRO FS R > Neumann KH 80 DSP

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

Do you have this issue on your M1 Mac? -> https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/132423

Or search on youtube for: Fixed: NO SOUND on MacBook Pro M1 [Crackling/Buzzing]

It is a well known Apple (M1) problem. I have it on my M1 Macbook since I bought it last year. It doesnt matter which USB interface is connected, I even have it using the headphones out (no USB involved) and sometimes also the internal speakers.
It gets worse if I have applications open that consume lots of memory (MS teams, browser, spotify). Some people have it since years.

It seems to be an Apple driver/hardware issue and afaik there is NO permanently working solution. Killing coreaudio process mitigates it for a certain amount of time.

For music I still have an Intel based Macbook which doesnt have any issues.

See also this reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/com … d_popping/

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

kili wrote:

Do you have this issue on your M1 Mac? -> https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/132423

Or search on youtube for: Fixed: NO SOUND on MacBook Pro M1 [Crackling/Buzzing]

It is a well known Apple (M1) problem. I have it on my M1 Macbook since I bought it last year. It doesnt matter which USB interface is connected, I even have it using the headphones out (no USB involved) and sometimes also the internal speakers.
It gets worse if I have applications open that consume lots of memory (MS teams, browser, spotify). Some people have it since years.

It seems to be an Apple driver/hardware issue and afaik there is NO permanently working solution. Killing coreaudio process mitigates it for a certain amount of time.

For music I still have an Intel based Macbook which doesnt have any issues.

See also this reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/com … d_popping/

Thank you so much! This is the answer I am looking for! Will surely research along your info.

If this is true, there is no need for me to replace my gears, and I probably need to switch back to PC, or acquire an Intel-based Mac......

In the long run, will Apple or the manufacturers seek to fix this serious issue?

Macbook | Rega Planet | Technics SL-1200G > RME ADI-2 PRO FS R > Neumann KH 80 DSP

11 (edited by Gössi 2023-03-26 16:21:55)

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

I currently have a ticket with AppleCare+ about this issue for which I am supposed to receive a call these days. I'll update if there's any valuable output.

But let's face it: As a single consumer it is very difficult to move Apple to do anything. In total, I've spent multiple days debugging, reproducing, and contacting Apple and RME about this issue.

For Apple it took me a lot of frustration, many days, and many tickets to convince them that there is a problem. Finally, one of their employees could match the issue to an internally known one for which there currently is no fix. Now, my support agent is in touch with the engineers working on the issue and is scheduled to provide me with an update during the next days.

From RME's side, the last email that I got, unfortunately, is still in denial even though I pointed them towards the relevant threads in this forum:

RME (on 8 March 2023) wrote:

A fundamental problem with the "reliable usability" of the ADI on current or even older Macs can be practically ruled out, nothing of the sort is known or reproducible.

German original:

[E]in grundsätzliches Problem der "verlässlichen Nutzbarkeit" des ADI an aktuellen oder au[c]h älteren Macs lässt sich praktisch ausschließen, es ist nichts dergleichen bekannt oder reproduzierbar.

While I like RME's products a lot and agree with @MC to the extent that I do not suspect a defect/bug on RME's side, I am fed up with the issue being ignored and belittled as a singular issue that one user with some quirky combination of software and hardware has. This is not the case.

To substantiate that: I performed extensive testing, including having my laptop wiped after being checked for any hardware issues by the Apple Store. I was able to reproduce the issue again immediately after the first clean start of the wiped device. Moreover, I can reproduce the issue on my colleague's computer, too.

Just as @kili mentions, using a memory-hungry application is a good way to reproduce the issue. It increases the rate/intensity of the issue, but the issue also is present when memory consumption is low. For instance, I also would observe the issue when I change between two tabs in my browser. Moreover, I noticed that the issue intensifies with higher sample rates (see Audio MIDI Setup app).

RME sells the interface as compatible with macOS. Thus, I expect that I can use my ADI-2 DAC with macOS. RME's responsibility includes the device's compatibility.

At a minimum, I expect RME to:
(1) Help their customers instead of marginalizing and downplaying the issue,
(2) reproduce the issue on their own hardware (get in touch with me if you are not able to),
(3) directly liaise with Apple to pressure them into fixing their issue, and
(4) keep users informed about potential issues and solutions.

12 (edited by KaiS 2023-03-26 22:13:00)

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

Gössi wrote:

... Finally, one of their employees could match the issue to an internally known one for which there currently is no fix.
...

At a minimum, I expect RME to:
...
(3) directly liaise with Apple to pressure them into fixing their issue,
...

Usually I wouldn’t comment on this, not even using any Macbook for audio.

So don’t get me wrong, but - I’m not quite getting why you take RME responsible for an issue that:

- is purely an Apple’s fault,
- affects even Apple product’s internal audio,
- and cannot be fixed by RME?

Furthermore, do you really assume RME is in a position to “pressure” Apple doing anything about it?


If a certain Apple product is, confirmed by the company itself, being unusable for the job with no fix ahead for an undefined time in the future, it might be the best strategy to make your Apple dealer replace it.

13 (edited by Gössi 2023-03-27 12:40:03)

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

@KaiS: Thanks for your reflections. To some extent I, of course, can understand your perspective. I've asked myself the same question, but came to a different conclusion.

I would ask you to put yourself into the shoes of users that bought a 1k+ EUR device that was advertised as compatible with their computer. But then it turns out the device is not compatible with all devices running macOS – only some. You get in touch with RME about that problem, provide audio recordings of the issue, and point to other resources documenting the issue (see below, the first three links). RME takes a brief look but doesn't investigate. Their response:

RME (on 13 June 2022) wrote:

never heard about this phenomenon...

German original:

in dieser Form sagt mir das Phänomen nix...

No effort to reproduce the issue, look into it further, or assist in any way.

Almost one year passes. Still no solution in sight. You sit on a device that is supposed to do one job really well, but it does the opposite of it – at least in your setup. You contact RME again, this time finally having evidence that multiple other users have the same problem, even in their own forum. RME brushes it off again:

A fundamental problem with the "reliable usability" [...] can be practically ruled out, nothing of the sort is known or reproducible.

It is hard not to interpret this as mockery or ignorance, even if it is not meant that way. If RME closes it's eyes and ears, yes, then the issue is not known or not reproducible. I can reproduce the issue, others as well. And RME, by means of their own forum and the resources I pointed them to, knows about the problem. Still: denial.

RME's approach to communication plays an important role here.

As a manufacturer of audio interfaces, I expect RME to either (1) know about common problems or (2) investigate them in good faith as they arise. As of now (or at least 8 March 2022), RME seems to be in denial. The first step towards a solution is acknowledging that there is a problem.

As I have mentioned, the audio glitches/dropouts are documented in other places as well (see below for a small selection). And yes, it might be that RME does not have any standing with Apple, but they could at least try to confirm the issue on their own an get in touch with Apple and/or coordinate with other audio interface manufacturers on the issue. It's not like it's not possible to call or message Apple. Nothing like this has happened, at least it was not acknowledged publicly.

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

Gössi wrote:

@KaiS: Thanks for your reflections. To some extent I, of course, can understand your perspective. I've asked myself the same question, but came to a different conclusion.

I would ask you to put yourself into the shoes of users that bought a 1k+ EUR device that was advertised as compatible with their computer. But then it turns out the device is not compatible with all devices running macOS – only some. You get in touch with RME about that problem, provide audio recordings of the issue, and point to other resources documenting the issue (see below, the first three links). RME takes a brief look but doesn't investigate. Their response:

RME (on 13 June 2022) wrote:

never heard about this phenomenon...

German original:

in dieser Form sagt mir das Phänomen nix...

No effort to reproduce the issue, look into it further, or assist in any way.

Almost one year passes. Still no solution in sight. You sit on a device that is supposed to do one job really well, but it does the opposite of it – at least in your setup. You contact RME again, this time finally having evidence that multiple other users have the same problem, even in their own forum. RME brushes it off again:

A fundamental problem with the "reliable usability" [...] can be practically ruled out, nothing of the sort is known or reproducible.

It is hard not to interpret this as mockery or ignorance, even if it is not meant that way. If RME closes it's eyes and ears, yes, then the issue is not known or not reproducible. I can reproduce the issue, others as well. And RME, by means of their own forum and the resources I pointed them to, knows about the problem. Still: denial.

RME's approach to communication plays an important role here.

As a manufacturer of audio interfaces, I expect RME to either (1) know about common problems or (2) investigate them in good faith as they arise. As of now (or at least 8 March 2022), RME seems to be in denial. The first step towards a solution is acknowledging that there is a problem.

As I have mentioned, the audio glitches/dropouts are documented in other places as well (see below for a small selection). And yes, it might be that RME does not have any standing with Apple, but they could at least try to confirm the issue on their own an get in touch with Apple and/or coordinate with other audio interface manufacturers on the issue. It's not like it's not possible to call or message Apple. Nothing like this has happened, at least it was not acknowledged publicly.

Your problem is with Apple , not RME.  I have been using RME devices for two years on a Mac Book Pro (intel) with NO problems. I suggest you  direct your efforts to resolve to the responsible party.

WY

CD Transport>optical>RME ADI-2 DAC FS(AKM)>XLR balanced >GLM software>Genelec Monitors 8340A

15 (edited by rickytsang 2023-03-27 04:27:05)

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

KaiS wrote:
Gössi wrote:

... Finally, one of their employees could match the issue to an internally known one for which there currently is no fix.
...

At a minimum, I expect RME to:
...
(3) directly liaise with Apple to pressure them into fixing their issue,
...

Usually I wouldn’t comment on this, not even using any Macbook for audio.

So don’t get me wrong, but - I’m not quite getting why you take RME responsible for an issue that:

- is purely an Apple’s fault,
- affects even Apple product’s internal audio,
- and cannot be fixed by RME?

Furthermore, do you really assume RME is in a position to “pressure” Apple doing anything about it?


If a certain Apple product is, confirmed by the company itself, being unusable for the job with no fix ahead for an undefined time in the future, it might be the best strategy to make your Apple dealer replace it.

To a certain extent, I agree that if indeed the problem originated from the internal audio engine of Apple Silicon Macs, the burden should fall onto Apple for fixing the faultiness, since it seems to affect all devices and even their internal audio!

However, I think RME (as well as ALL other manufacturers) should start declaring that their products are incompatible with Apple Silicon Macs! This is the obvious way to (1) protect their brands, (2) save customers the hassle of discovering the problem with a lot of precious time wasted and productivity lost, and (3) put pressure on Apple to fix the issue.

Please do not get me wrong – I believe the issue will be solved sooner or later, but it just needs a little push. If indeed it's 120% Apple's fault, I guess manufacturers can still help make a better world by voicing out, no? And if this fault is caused by Apple themselves, there is really no need to deny it. For those who are still using Intel-based Macs and don't experience problems now (and hence showing no empathy) - what if your Macs break down and you need to switch to new ones?

Macbook | Rega Planet | Technics SL-1200G > RME ADI-2 PRO FS R > Neumann KH 80 DSP

16 (edited by Gössi 2023-03-27 12:36:01)

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

yuhasz01 wrote:

Your problem is with Apple , not RME.  I have been using RME devices for two years on a Mac Book Pro (intel) with NO problems. I suggest you  direct your efforts to resolve to the responsible party.

I'm happy for you, @yuhasz01. But as long as RME – against better knowledge – is denying that there is a problem with Apple Silicon Macs ("[...] nothing of the sort is known or reproducible."), they are part of the problem.

And believe me, I've spent days with Apple on the phone, collecting sysdiagnose reports, bringing in the device to the Apple Store, and lobbying for this issue with them. When you take all the evidence together, it seems like this problem is existing for at least 1.5 years now. This makes me believe that no fix is coming. Thus, it is an incompatibility that must be declared to consumers before they are buying the device, no matter if RME can do something about this or not.

I am in the same situation as @rickytsang: On my Intel MacBook Pro I didn't have any problems. As soon as I switched to my MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro, the problems started. I can reproduce the issue on other MacBook Pros 14" M1 Pro, too.

RME could at least assist and state: Hey, we can confirm that there is this problem and Apple is at fault because of X and Y. Then the affected users could go to Apple and, e.g., request a different laptop and would not be depicted as if they were making up some issue.

Btw, I just saw that ASR is tracking the issue as well: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … pro.42001/

17 (edited by ramses 2023-03-27 12:04:14)

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

I don't know how you imagine it. As long as there is IT, there will always be cases of incompatibility. It will also be difficult to give a valid recommendation, since it doesn't seem to be known whether only some devices are affected or what the root cause on Apple's side is exactly.

Recording is an area with special requirements.

In the Windows/PC area, too, things aren't always without problems. Occasionally, you have to iron out incompatibilities in drivers and hardware by purchasing hardware that is known to be suitable for recording. But even then, it sometimes doesn't work if there is a design issue on the mainboard or something wrong in the BIOS and what not.

That's why it is still a business model for companies to offer tested turnkey systems for audio.

I would focus now on finding a workaround.

Perhaps the USB port of a Thunderbolt docking station from Apple or Sonnet would be a solution for you.
Or you get a Sonnet Thunderbolt Dock with a PCIe slot and then have the opportunity to try out different USB cards.
Sonnet also offers different PCIe expansion cards for USB.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

Unfortunately there is no real workaround. It is some fault in the Apple/silicon audio implementation. You can see the error messages in the coreaudio driver.

As I stated I even have the issue with the internal speakers of the Macbook and the headphones output.

I also tried USB C Docks, my Razer TB4 dock...in the end it doesnt help sad

In this case the issue exists apparently for a very long time...

The only workaround is currently:
1) to either go max memory when purchasing a Mac and avoid memory-hungry applications or
2) use an Intel based Mac -> which is a shame, because the M1 processor is incredible (except audio wink )
3) switch to windows/Linux -> which is also a shame, Mac & RME is a lovely combination

I think hopes were high that maybe RME has some other support pathes at Apple than us "normalos" smile

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

Too bad, but then the issue is clear seems to be something on the software side and needs a fix.

Based on the experience some time ago with Apple driver issues, Apple ignored the problem for around 6 months.
After around 9 months, it was fixed after big waves through the press.

Such things require a broader visibility by the press; otherwise they do not seem to move, and this is not the first time.

What did they say last time? They support USB, but what you connect is in the end your problem.
But … USB is a universal type of I/O port, not only for devices with the Label "Apple" on it.
It's a shame to ignore the issue this way.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

Hello, I bought an ADI-2-pro FS R on March 3
I have a mac mini m1 2020. So far no problems seen

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

I did not have the issues from the very beginning. It started at some point.

And after I had the issues I did a complete format and re-installation of MacOS. That helped for sometime until it started again.

Maybe it is only a specific configuration. And it definitely helps to have lots of free memory.

I have a M1 Pro Macbook 2021 with 16G memory.

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

rickytsang wrote:
KaiS wrote:
Gössi wrote:

... Finally, one of their employees could match the issue to an internally known one for which there currently is no fix.
...

At a minimum, I expect RME to:
...
(3) directly liaise with Apple to pressure them into fixing their issue,
...

Usually I wouldn’t comment on this, not even using any Macbook for audio.

So don’t get me wrong, but - I’m not quite getting why you take RME responsible for an issue that:

- is purely an Apple’s fault,
- affects even Apple product’s internal audio,
- and cannot be fixed by RME?

Furthermore, do you really assume RME is in a position to “pressure” Apple doing anything about it?


If a certain Apple product is, confirmed by the company itself, being unusable for the job with no fix ahead for an undefined time in the future, it might be the best strategy to make your Apple dealer replace it.

To a certain extent, I agree that if indeed the problem originated from the internal audio engine of Apple Silicon Macs, the burden should fall onto Apple for fixing the faultiness, since it seems to affect all devices and even their internal audio!

However, I think RME (as well as ALL other manufacturers) should start declaring that their products are incompatible with Apple Silicon Macs! This is the obvious way to (1) protect their brands, (2) save customers the hassle of discovering the problem with a lot of precious time wasted and productivity lost, and (3) put pressure on Apple to fix the issue.

Please do not get me wrong – I believe the issue will be solved sooner or later, but it just needs a little push. If indeed it's 120% Apple's fault, I guess manufacturers can still help make a better world by voicing out, no? And if this fault is caused by Apple themselves, there is really no need to deny it. For those who are still using Intel-based Macs and don't experience problems now (and hence showing no empathy) - what if your Macs break down and you need to switch to new ones?

These are very good points and commentary thank you.  I will express my concern to Apple as well to try and give some public pressure for them to address the issue.   If enough people make a fuss they will direct their efforts to correct the problem.   I will hold off on my purchase of  a new Mac Book Pro and let Apple know that!

WY

CD Transport>optical>RME ADI-2 DAC FS(AKM)>XLR balanced >GLM software>Genelec Monitors 8340A

23

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC Audio Dropouts: MacBook USB

Reopening this thread as have been noticing stutters (sounds like a beat repeat on a brand new UFX III on a Mac M1 - 16gig)

After a bit of research I came across this thread on another website where they've really gone deep into pin pointing the issue, and they think it comes from memory usage (over 60% memory pressure) and is an Apple problem.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … pro.42001/

Supposedly updating to the Sonoma MacOS beta fixes this issue. I haven't tested this yet, but am crossing fingers.