1 (edited by guillem 2019-12-17 17:03:30)

Topic: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

Hi there,

I did read and tried almost everything about configuring Windows 10 for ASIO dropouts/crackle but I can't sustain a proper audio signal below 256 samples. Playing with Reaper or Cubase Pro 10 gives me crackling even if I use 256 and I open the browser.

I've tried every USB port (Asus Prime H370-Plus) and I've configured everything since I did a fresh 1903 install. I use Windows for Cubase since 1997 so I should know how to set it up for audio. System settings, power settings, BIOS, USB settings, nVidia Control Panel settings... nothing helps.

BF Pro is updated to 125, last driver. Any tips will be appreciated. Thanks.

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

Which CPU are you using ? How many DRAM is installed ? Do you use a SSD ?

Do you have a dedicated GPU or are you using a cpu with integrated GPU?

What BIOS settings did you perform to disable energy saving completely ?

Are you using the Windows energy profile for highest performance ? Or did you activate the Steinberg energy profile in Cubase settings.

Is CPU core parking disabled? If you use the Steinberg energy profile then parking is disabled otherwise you need to tweak it yourself by editing Windows energy profile's with the tool parkcontrol from bitsum.

What does LatencyMon report if you measure for kernel latency timer (not sitting on my pc from memory). In 3 Min measuring time on an IDLE system in which ranges are the usual recurring timer values? What is the minimum and maximum ? My systems absolute Minimum is 2 Microseconds, usually 10-50 with some rare peaks at around 100.
The tool tells you that your pc is not well suited if these values reach 1000+.
But this is IMHO already a much too high value.
Peaks on an IDLE system (no other app in use) shall be 200 microseconds at maximum otherwise the BIOS /Windows settings are still not good. BTW you need to change the measuring method one time to kernel latency timer to get those values. And remember to NOT start any other DAW/application as we want to catch the basic load and agility of the CPU / system how quickly it can respond to computing tasks.

Before doing any changes on Windows or Cubase perform a backup/diskimage with Macrium Reflect. If something goes wrong then you can restore very quickly to the previous state. Get the payed version, only this version supports "rapid delta restore" algorithm which changes only those disk blocks that need to be changed. Create an usb recovery stick and acticate a restore entry in Windows boot menue.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by guillem 2019-12-17 17:02:52)

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

Which CPU are you using ? How many DRAM is installed ? Do you use a SSD ?

Intel 9400f, 16GB single stick DDR4 2666 with XMP profile loaded. Yes, Samsung 850 EVO 500GB.

Do you have a dedicated GPU or are you using a cpu with integrated GPU?

nVidia 960 4GB, dedicated. CPU doesn't have GPU (model f)

What BIOS settings did you perform to disable energy saving completely ?

I've performed a complete BIOS overhaul leaving everything at optimal -meaning no energy saving feature activated-, no overclock.

Are you using the Windows energy profile for highest performance ? Or did you activate the Steinberg energy profile in Cubase settings.

Yes and no. Now I've tried the Steinberg energy profile and it seems working! But only on Cubase, Reaper keeps crackling below 256.

Is CPU core parking disabled? If you use the Steinberg energy profile then parking is disabled otherwise you need to tweak it yourself by editing Windows energy profile's with the tool parkcontrol from bitsum.

Now it should be, but alas, same behaviour out of Cubase.

What does LatencyMon report if you measure for kernel latency timer (not sitting on my pc from memory). In 3 Min measuring time on an IDLE system in which ranges are the usual recurring timer values? What is the minimum and maximum ? My systems absolute Minimum is 2 Microseconds, usually 10-50 with some rare peaks at around 100.
The tool tells you that your pc is not well suited if these values reach 1000+.
But this is IMHO already a much too high value.
Peaks on an IDLE system (no other app in use) shall be 200 microseconds at maximum otherwise the BIOS /Windows settings are still not good. BTW you need to change the measuring method one time to kernel latency timer to get those values. And remember to NOT start any other DAW/application as we want to catch the basic load and agility of the CPU / system how quickly it can respond to computing tasks.

About 66 microseconds. All good.

Before doing any changes on Windows or Cubase perform a backup/diskimage with Macrium Reflect. If something goes wrong then you can restore very quickly to the previous state. Get the payed version, only this version supports "rapid delta restore" algorithm which changes only those disk blocks that need to be changed. Create an usb recovery stick and acticate a restore entry in Windows boot menue.

I'm a Macrium user smile

Thanks ramses. Anything else to consider?

EDIT: upgraded Windows to 1909. No changes.

4 (edited by ramses 2019-12-17 20:29:01)

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

Bios
disable C-states mostly set to c0/c1
For Reaper use parkcontrol to modify energy profile to not park cores.
Use process lasso pro to bind daw process to around 75% of cores. Increase process and i/o priority. This might help for reaper.
You might also want to use their energy profile bitsum's highest prio.
Install process lasso pro as service if your normal user has no admin rights, then PL can control all processes.
You only need to assign the DAW cores the remaining apps get the rest.
Careful when raising process and i/o prio. Only one level higher, best not too much.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

guillem wrote:

Playing with Reaper or Cubase Pro 10 gives me crackling even if I use 256 and I open the browser.

When you say "and I open the browser" do you mean opening a web browser?

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

ramses wrote:

Bios
disable C-states mostly set to c0/c1
For Reaper use parkcontrol to modify energy profile to not park cores.
Use process lasso pro to bind daw process to around 75% of cores. Increase process and i/o priority. This might help for reaper.
You might also want to use their energy profile bitsum's highest prio.
Install process lasso pro as service if your normal user has no admin rights, then PL can control all processes.
You only need to assign the DAW cores the remaining apps get the rest.
Careful when raising process and i/o prio. Only one level higher, best not too much.

Thanks, I'll try that once I'm at the main PC.

widnerm wrote:

When you say "and I open the browser" do you mean opening a web browser?

Yes, that's it. Anytime I click outside Reaper audio crackles badly. Moreso if a new process (ie Opera web browser) is opening. Happens lightly on Cubase Pro, Reaper... really bad.

7 (edited by ramses 2019-12-18 19:05:35)

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

Internet over LAN or WLAN  ?
Network adapter creates additional interrupts and DPC's.
This works only reliable if the pc is tuned for audio and cpu cores have enough threshold so that audio can be processed in time in parallel to DPC load on your system.
Maybe process lasso pro could support by pinning the DAW process to around 50-75% of CPU cores and by priotizing process and i/o prio for audio and by using bitsum's high performance energy profile which disables cpu core parking among other things.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

For some reason Microsoft Edge browser causes a lot of crackling on my system that I haven't found a way to eliminate.  The Chrome browser doesn't create nearly as much of a problem.

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

For some reason Microsoft Edge browser causes a lot of crackling on my system that I haven't found a way to eliminate.  The Chrome browser doesn't create nearly as much of a problem.

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

ramses wrote:

Bios
disable C-states mostly set to c0/c1
For Reaper use parkcontrol to modify energy profile to not park cores.
Use process lasso pro to bind daw process to around 75% of cores. Increase process and i/o priority. This might help for reaper.
You might also want to use their energy profile bitsum's highest prio.
Install process lasso pro as service if your normal user has no admin rights, then PL can control all processes.
You only need to assign the DAW cores the remaining apps get the rest.
Careful when raising process and i/o prio. Only one level higher, best not too much.

Sadly Process Lasso Pro needs to be bought if I want total control. Any free alternatives?

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

widnerm wrote:

For some reason Microsoft Edge browser causes a lot of crackling on my system that I haven't found a way to eliminate.  The Chrome browser doesn't create nearly as much of a problem.

What DAW you're using? As I've said, with Cubase Pro 10 this isn't really a big problem. A scratch or two if I open Opera with a loaded project. Reaper on the other hand... crackles too much.

12 (edited by ramses 2019-12-19 18:48:33)

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

I do not know alternatives to process lasso pro.
But they have a lifetime license afair .. So fair enough from price perspective.
Don't they offer a Demo version so that you can try first ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

guillem wrote:
widnerm wrote:

For some reason Microsoft Edge browser causes a lot of crackling on my system that I haven't found a way to eliminate.  The Chrome browser doesn't create nearly as much of a problem.

What DAW you're using? As I've said, with Cubase Pro 10 this isn't really a big problem. A scratch or two if I open Opera with a loaded project. Reaper on the other hand... crackles too much.

I use Reaper, Ableton, and Gig Performer.  I can produce crackling with all of them if I do things involving bursts of network activity.  It's much worse if I'm using Edge, much less if using Chrome.

It's not really a problem for me because I don't generally to use a web browser when using a DAW.  Mostly I run into it if I'm just playing live (using VSTs) and I decide to go to the internet to search for tab or sheet music for a song.  As I said, switching to Chrome as my default browser eliminated most of it.

I've heard positive things about Process Lasso, but haven't tried it myself.  There's a free version and a paid version.  Some of the paid version extra features will work in "trial mode" in the free version.

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

@widnerm @ramses

Ok, gotta try it tomorrow and see how it goes. I'll report back. Thanks both!

15 (edited by guillem 2019-12-21 18:52:48)

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

ramses wrote:

I do not know alternatives to process lasso pro.
But they have a lifetime license afair .. So fair enough from price perspective.
Don't they offer a Demo version so that you can try first ?

Tried it, same behaviour as without. Apparently it was a fully loaded project (spiking around 90% of Performance inside Cubase) that crackled. Once I did load a way less taxing project I could go down to 64 no problem. Strange thing is, on Windows resource monitor it consumed about 38-40% CPU even if spiking at 90% (crackling issues). This puzzles me.

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

What ecactly did you try with process lasso ?
As you mention very high cpu utilisation over 90%...
You should also be aware of that smaller asio buffersizes lead to higher cpu load and that with a high system/cpu load the demands for lower DPC latency (good optimized drivers and good system settings) are increased.
At a certain point with high cpu load it's not possible to work with small asio buffersize as the cpu needs still be able to process audio in time. With a cpu load of over let's say 75% it will become more and more unlikely to process realtime audio without loss, especially if the recording interface has many audio channels or if the computer has only a fewer amount of cores etc ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

Well, to be honest I was expecting a pristine driver response considering BFPro is lauded by this, moreso if you take in account what I've said previously! Cubase, when loaded to 90% of Performance, only consumed about 38-40% of raw CPU power as per Windows resource monitor (CPU tab). I guess I should stay where I am now, downgrading latency to achieve loaded setups without crackles or dropouts.

18

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

Cubase has an option to enable multi-thread or multi-CPU support, check that. Otherwise there is a clear difference between Cubase CPU display, which only shows the Cubase audio engine working, and the Windows CPU display, which shows the whole system.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Babyface Pro crackles in Windows 10 1909

MC wrote:

Cubase has an option to enable multi-thread or multi-CPU support, check that. Otherwise there is a clear difference between Cubase CPU display, which only shows the Cubase audio engine working, and the Windows CPU display, which shows the whole system.

Multitasking is checked since day one. Ok, I get what you're saying, but if I followed ramses indications properly, using Process Lasso and setting affinity 75% to Cubase (besides using their energy profile), Cubase should use more than 40% of CPU if I'm not mistaken? This wasn't the case.

Not to be picky, but I need to understand why this happens. Would it be better if I ask on Steinberg Forums? Even if it happens on Reaper as well.

Thanks and merry xmas everyone!