• Registered: 2019-12-24
  • Posts: 36

Topic: UFX+ clicks on monitoring and recording

Hi forum

I've just bought a Fireface UFX+ and did my first session couple of days ago. I was recording a full band live:

3 x drum mics
sax mic
stereo pair analogue line in keys
midi of above keys
upright bass DI

So seven inputs total.
192k bitrate
All monitored though Totalmix with own stereo mixes via headphones.
Being recorded to Logic Pro X via an Imac via thunderbolt with 64 bit buffer onto a very fast G audio drive.

We were noticing clicks through the headphone monitors during the live sessions during takes.

To my horror I later discovered that every track and take had clicks on it, and almost sounded like stuttering as well where the clicks occurred. I tried another session the following day (not same musicians unfortunately, chance lost) with the same buffer and there were no problems, even when I reduced the buffer to 32 bit on my DAW. Does anyone have any idea what this could be? I'm very loath to get the musicians back until I can sort this out. I'm wondering if there's a setting on the UFX+ that I've neglected?

May be unrelated (I'll post this separately) but I couldn't switch the dynamics and eq in on any more that a couple of inputs at once on Totalmix either. Same on the outputs.

UFX+
iMac17,Quad-Core Intel Core i7 4 GHz 32GB RAM
Logic Pro X

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • Registered: 2007-04-06
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Re: UFX+ clicks on monitoring and recording

64 samples buffer size with a 192 kHz recording? The tolerable minimum that might work is 128 samples. Recording using the (latency-free) TM FX monitoring you should use 1024 samples!

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-12-24
  • Posts: 36

Re: UFX+ clicks on monitoring and recording

Thanks for the reply Matthias much appreciated.

That's exactly what I thought so the following day, I tried again (lost two of the musicians) but with a couple of extra mics on the kit to make seven inputs at 192k. I left it at 64 bits and this time but when listening back there was no problem. To try to stretch the point I reduced to 32 bits, still no problem (I do have a modern powerful Imac).

We were hearing the clicks on the monitoring through Totalmix and not monitoring through the DAW as everything was live, so there should have been no latency issue on the monitoring. Unfortunately these clicks / stutters were printed to the recording.

As I can't seem to force the issue through buffer size on the DAW is there anything else I can check? I'm worried now that this will happen again.

In future as a precaution I will increase buffer!

UFX+
iMac17,Quad-Core Intel Core i7 4 GHz 32GB RAM
Logic Pro X

4 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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Re: UFX+ clicks on monitoring and recording

32 bits? I think you don't talk about the audio latency buffer size, but something different (like disk record buffer size).

Also none of this (audio buffer size or disk buffer size) would be audible when using TM FX monitoring (in the monitored signal. It might be audible via the software playback channels). If direct hardware monitoring clicks then you must use external digital devices and the clocking between these and the UFX+ is not set correctly.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-12-24
  • Posts: 36

Re: UFX+ clicks on monitoring and recording

Okay Matthias thanks. I still don't understand what can have caused this problem and what your suggested solution is.

To be clear, no monitoring was being used from the DAW as all channels being recorded live. Therefore as you rightly say (and I proved the following day) the buffer I/O size on my DAW should be irrelevant.

Therefore the clicks were occurring live through Totalmix, but also being printed to the recording on my hard drive. My understanding from the tuition videos is that Totalmix should have near zero latency. You say "If direct hardware monitoring clicks then you must use external digital devices and the clocking between these and the UFX+ is not set correctly", are you suggesting I was using another digital device (I wasn't, all in direct mic or analogue DI) or are you saying I need another device to prevent this happening. If so please suggest something, I'm sure RME sell one!

I'm grateful for your patience, I'm quite new to this.

UFX+
iMac17,Quad-Core Intel Core i7 4 GHz 32GB RAM
Logic Pro X
  • vinark
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Re: UFX+ clicks on monitoring and recording

Clicking through totalmix will always record too, so you need to troubleshoot on the spot. Most logical cause is clocking, but the device may also have been fixed by a power down, cause it was in a strange state because of actions before. Fix might have also been powering down and up the computer. If it is not happening any more I would consider it a non issue for now. With the lesson learned that clicking  needs immediate action.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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7 Reply by MC

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Re: UFX+ clicks on monitoring and recording

No other digital device connected - ok, no worry. You don't need another device. Just make sure the UFX+ is set to clock Internal in its Settings dialog.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-12-24
  • Posts: 36

Re: UFX+ clicks on monitoring and recording

Thanks for the tip.

vinark wrote:

Clicking through totalmix will always record too, so you need to troubleshoot on the spot. Most logical cause is clocking, but the device may also have been fixed by a power down, cause it was in a strange state because of actions before. Fix might have also been powering down and up the computer. If it is not happening any more I would consider it a non issue for now. With the lesson learned that clicking  needs immediate action.

UFX+
iMac17,Quad-Core Intel Core i7 4 GHz 32GB RAM
Logic Pro X
  • Registered: 2019-12-24
  • Posts: 36

Re: UFX+ clicks on monitoring and recording

Just checked and it was on internal clock thanks. I think I'll check all is well right at the start of the next session, and will probably record at 96K to ensure all the dynamics and FX work on Totalmix. I'm sure it will be quite hard to hear the difference!

MC wrote:

No other digital device connected - ok, no worry. You don't need another device. Just make sure the UFX+ is set to clock Internal in its Settings dialog.

UFX+
iMac17,Quad-Core Intel Core i7 4 GHz 32GB RAM
Logic Pro X