Topic: copy setting in totalmix

how can I copy all settings in Totalmix from hardware input to daw outs, when changing from bandtracking to overdubbing (and back)?
Or do I have to do everything manually???

Pierre

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Not quite sure what you are trying to achieve... Which settings would that be?


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: copy setting in totalmix

When I start recordings with a band, I want to feed their headphones /TM hardware outs  with mixes fron the total mix TM hardware inputs  ( no latency from daw (Nuendo).
If  -as an example- the bass wants to correct something, I`d like to be able to copy all settings I made in the hardware inputs (can`t be heard in playback modus) to the daw outs (except the bass), so the headphone mixes stay the same. And afterwards go back to TMhardware ins for more tracking .. (using master mute to have only one feed)
For me, -volume, pan, mono/stereo, routing- would do... (madi pci card).

4 (edited by zackstudio 2020-02-19 17:59:24)

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Am I missing something?
Seems, I`m the only one wanting this!?
Silly idea-not worth thinking about?
I thought, that this is the main reason for using Totalmix...

Pierre

Re: copy setting in totalmix

I think you want to look into using Asio direct monitoring (ADM).
Here the DAW controls totalmix when Hardware monitoring is activated in the daw.
You have zero latency monitoring during recording and you can monitor the daw during playback. When dropping in, totalmix switches from playback to input.
Georg

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Thanks Georg!
This would solve part of my problem. The musician(s) doing overdubbs would get a daw mix whilst listening, and when dropping in would get their individual Totalmix hardware input mixes?
I`look itno it.
Pierre

7 (edited by ramses 2020-02-20 09:57:36)

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Use submixes and snapshots in TM FX.

As you want to have near-zero latency monitoring lets exclude the DAW for a moment.
The DAW gets the signal unaltered from HW inputs, so your recording is "safe".

Now lets talk about TM FX submix mode.
Every HW output (bottom row) is a submix of its own.
So in TM FX you have as many submixes as you have HW outputs.

To solve your 1st problem.
If I understand you correctly, then every Musician wants to have a submix of its own.
i.e. a little bit more from the drums, a little bit less from the Bass or whatever.

In TM FX "submix mode":
1. you click to the HW output (bottom row) where i.e. "Phones1" are connected to for "Musician1".
2. next you change the level of
    - HW inputs (audio from devices which are connected to the inputs of your recording interface, top row in TM FX)
    - SW playback channels (audio from PC/applications, like DAW, maybe a backing track)
3. If your recording interface has a FX chip then you can also EQ the inputs or outputs to create a smoother submix.
    Note: this does not change the recorded audio in the DAW, audio from HW inputs will be passed through
    unmodified to the application. So your recording is safe !
4. This you perform for every HW output to which i.e. phones are connected to for every musician.
    By this every musician gets the submix that he want to hear.

These settings and routing you store to one of the 8 Snapshots in TM FX "-> see below "Snapshots" on the right side.
All settings can also be safed to a file on disk File -> Save Snapshot As and later be restored.
You can also save the workspace, the manual tells you the difference whats being saved in Snapshots and Workspaces.
Additionally you can save "Snapshot" AND "Workspace" to up to 32 "Workspace Quick Select" slots together.
This enables you to quickly restore "Snapshot" and "Workspace" together, also with an easy key command ALT-1 for the 1st workspace, ALT-2 for the 2nd workspace.
This is nice to restore TM FX settings quickly to your last proven state.
Useful if you work i.e. in different projects or environments.

Now to your next requirement, you want to mute inputs if you playback from DAW.
Well, then mute the inputs, create proper routing and save it to snapshot 2.
Then for recording you use snapshot1 and for playback snapshot 2.

If you want control room features for your outputs either controlled
- by mouse in the TM FX control room or
- by ARC USB
then assign them by using the "Assign" button.
Only one HW output "Main Out" is being controlled by FM FX control room at a time.
With "Monitor B" you can switch between "Main Out" and "Main Out B".

You can of course also save to another snapshot, that the phones HW output is "Main Out", then the Control Room features work on the phones. Its free assignable to you and storeable in Snapshots, whats Main Out, Main Out B, Phones 1..4, etc.

Further information found in the manual.
Each manual describes the TM FX capabilities of the device that you own.

Additionally you can watch RME tutorial videos which are very compact and to the point to one topic,
so very easy and time efficient to watch, you can find a collection of new and old videos here in my blog:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … al-Videos/

I also put together a step by step guide for TM FX 1st setup.
Maybe the one or other point might also be interesting to you: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/
Its available in two languages, german and english.

If you should really need ASIO direct monitoring as a feature (ADM), then I remember a thread month ago where RME told, that ADM runs best, when the inputs are mono and the outputs are stereo.
In TM FX you can easily reset the Mix to have exactly this ADM layout:
TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Set inputs mono / outputs stereo (ADM)

But I am not sure whether ADM is really what you need in your situation.
You want to control the gain for the different submixes and have zero latency monitoring.
You do not want to control the gain in the DAW for the inputs to record at lower input level.
I think this would happen if I am not wrong.

For recording I personally would use the optimum level for each input and would adjust
the final level later in the mixing phase.

For the phones mixes simply use TotalMix FX for zero latency submixes.

One more thing to note. If your backing track consists of different tracks, then you can send them in the DAW to different Outputs of your Recording Interface.
The Audio will be send to TM FX first to the SW Playback Channels (not directly to a HW output).
This is very useful because then you can
a) reroute as you need to one or more real HW outputs and
b) also adjust the volume for every submix (HW output) of your recording device.

And this is the strength of TM FX. Its perfect to create phones submixes.
You can ideally mix audio directly coming from HW inputs latency free (near zero-latency)
You can alter the signal with FX only for the submix (your recorded signal remains unaltered)

You can add audio coming from the PC (Windows, DAW, some other application) and here is TM FX
an additional layer between Audio Application and the real HW outputs. Therefore you can reroute so nicely
and create perfect submixes for phones etc as you need.

I tried to "capture" this in the following drawing from my step by step primer for TM FX:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1988-TotalMix-Diagram-Overview-Signal-Flow-jpg/

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Thank you for the detailed reply Ramses!
I know how to do submixes/headphonemixes in TM an I understand how the routing works.
The one thing I don`t get ist how to save all hardware input to subgroup mixes and reload them to the 2.row /DAW outputs to submixes...
I want each musician to get the same mix  when tracking (from hardware ins to submixes) or when dubbing (from DAW outs to submixes.

Are you saying I can save 1. row/hardware mixes to submixes to a workspace and then load it to the 2. row/DAW outs to submixes?
That would be perfect!
I`ll try this tomorrow!

Pierre

9 (edited by ramses 2020-02-20 18:27:15)

Re: copy setting in totalmix

So you are only looking for a way how to copy a submix from one HW output to the other ?

Its easy, see manual.

For an UFX+ in chapter 27: http://www.archiv.rme-audio.de/download … plus_e.pdf

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: copy setting in totalmix

ADM lets you control totalmix using the DAWs mixer. With zero latency. You can use your main mix for yourself and create several aux sends for the musicians. Totalmix copies the daw mixer settings into its mixer. Try it, it works like a charm.
Georg

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Georg

when I use ADM, I only get the DAW ciue sends (Nuendo still provides only 4 stereo cues-additional sends do not have the Talkback/click option)...and the hardware ins are always on.....
Pierre

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Ramses
I checked the manual...
I can copy all  hardware input to one sub and paste it to anoter sub....
I can save/load  a snapshot
I can save/load a workspace with all its snapshots

this not what I want

What I want is:
-save  the 1. red  *HW inputs row with its routings to submixes*
-load the saved red *HW inputs to submixes* to the blue 2. row *playback outs to submixes*
I coud live with copying *1.row to one submix* and past it to *2. row to submixes*.
I would prefer to be able to copy *ALL 1. row to ALL submixes* and paste them ALL to the * 2. row to ALL submixes*.

I work mostly with Nuendo (have others )
I run a PC with two Xeon E5 cpus (each 8 cores/16 threads) and 64 g ram.
I mainly use a REDNET Dante sytem but want to use my RME Madi card with a SSL alpha XS box as second system with easy  cuemix options....

hoping that I am missing something and this is possible.
Pierre

Re: copy setting in totalmix

You can copy / paste from a HW input to SW playback channel, but only if both are mono or stereo.
But it has limitations, you can only copy level and pan.
If you copy / paste then take care
- copy <channel>
- paste input mix <channel>

But it can not copy FX settings, if you have a FX chip in TM FX, because this is only possible on real
physical I/O ports (HW inputs, HW outputs), not for audio which comes through the connection to the PC.

Otherwise see comments from RME, Mr Carstens (MC).

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: copy setting in totalmix

I can copy one input channel to one playback channel. With  24 channels HW inputs to 24 channel playback channels for 12 headphonemixes, I would have to do copy/paste 288 times........(bands often need more channels for tracking...)
This is what I would like to avoid......
I can`t copy ALL HW inputs to playbacks.
If I could do that, I`d have to copy/paste 12 times for 12 headphone mixes...not elegant, but workable.....
Copying ALL HW ins to ALL submixes..and the paste them ALL to Playback would be great.

Pierre

Re: copy setting in totalmix

What I would do .. perform those settings in the DAW ... and voila, you do not have to split every channel into a dedicated SW playback channel and have all these issues.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: copy setting in totalmix

How about RME making it possible to copy/paste the  1.(red) row  to the 2. (blue) row?????

17

Re: copy setting in totalmix

That is technically impossible, sorry.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

18 (edited by zackstudio 2020-02-22 10:21:09)

Re: copy setting in totalmix

so that is defined now....would it be possible to copy/paste one hardware submix to one playback submix?

19

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Again no. That is basically the same as before, it breaks the internal structure. You can copy an input to output routing to a different input (so only the input changes), and an output with all inputs and software playbacks to another output (so only the destination changes). So far nobody needed to access software outputs or their routing in such a way as you do, which also seems to mean that everyone else works differently.

Implementing something like this will have strong limitations (for example the independent EQ of input and hardware output cannot simply be merged to the hardware output alone).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

20 (edited by zackstudio 2020-02-22 13:44:34)

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Thanks again!
Changing the feeds to i.e. subgroup 1 from hardeware ins to playback outs can`t be done? That would only change  the inputs to the subgroup...(hoping, that this is not wrong thinking)... level and pan would do for me.

21

Re: copy setting in totalmix

That is not how it is implemented. It would also require to throw away the current playback fader position, which might have been in effect and used before. So it would only work correctly if there is zero playback as long as the inputs are used. But this is all theoretical, we will not implement such things, sorry.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

22 (edited by zackstudio 2020-02-22 14:56:23)

Re: copy setting in totalmix

Thanks again.
I would not mind loosing all playback positions (that`s  the whole point of this)!!
Don`t think, I`m the only one wanting this as an option...
....and wishing you might change your (RMEs) mind eventually (hope dies last).......
There`s no more to say, unless RME adopts my view....

Thank you for the clarification!
Pierre