• Registered: 2018-02-22
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Topic: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

I've put a new PC build together and I'm getting lots of fifo errors in the error reporter. These seem to be happening when I open certain windows in Cubase, for example Omnisphere and the Cubase video window, if I hide the window the errors stop. The issue is 100% reproducible. I'm on the latest drivers and firmware for the UFX+, Windows 10 Pro, Cubase Pro 10.5. The issue is also present in general Windows audio, if for example I play a track in Spotify and do web browsing I get the errors.

I'm currently connecting the UFX+ via USB3 to a Sonnet Allegro card, which worked perfectly in a previous build. I've tried the other USB ports on my MB, all have the same issue but to varying degrees.

I can't seem to get the UFX+ to show up as a TB device or I would try that to see if it helps. I have TB enabled in the BIOS, the Intel TB driver installed and the UFX+ TB driver installed. I'm on an Asrock Taichi x570 motherboard.

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2 Reply by MC

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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

So you bought and added the Thunderbolt add-on card?

http://www.asrock.com/mb/spec/product.a … AIC%20R2.0

I don't know why you have issues, but they seem video related. Wouldn't be the first time that video manages to affect USB (famous nVidia mouse trail on x99 boards, for example).

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Registered: 2018-02-22
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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

Correct, its the AIC. I'm not sure why the UFX+ won't show up under TB, unfortunately I don't have any other TB devices to test with.

I went AMD with the video card to try and avoid some of the issues found on Nvidia, its an AMD 5600 XT, latest drivers.

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4 Reply by MC

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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

How did you connect the TB1 port of the UFX with the USB-C type port of the AIC? You will need an adapter like the famous StarTech for that. The 'matching' ports on the AIC are not Thunderbolt but graphics (Display Port).

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Registered: 2018-02-22
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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

MC wrote:

How did you connect the TB1 port of the UFX with the USB-C type port of the AIC? You will need an adapter like the famous StarTech for that. The 'matching' ports on the AIC are not Thunderbolt but graphics (Display Port).

I'm using an Apple TB adapter, I now have TB working. This was an error on my part, my AIC was ever so slightly misaligned which was preventing the TB adapter cable from being pushed in all the way. I'll be testing TB for glitches this week as I had issues before with RME TB on my last system and as I cant get USB3 to work here without USB3 I don't have any working options.

Synthax (RME UK support) just aren't responding to my request, so looks like I'm on my own.

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  • Registered: 2018-02-22
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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

So I think I've found the source of the issue. I swapped out the GPU (AMD 5600 XT) for my old Nvidia GTX1060 and the USB/fifo errors seem to have gone. I only had chance to try it out for a short amount of time but as soon as I swapped back to the 5600 xt the error came back.

I'm wondering whether this is something specific to this whole series of cards or maybe something as simple as a setting in the AMD control panel. For now though it look like there's one more piece of hardware my UFX+ doesn't get along with.

Still no reply from Synthax so I'll try the other countries.

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7 Reply by MC

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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

We have heard many horror stories from nVidia, but ATI/AMD graphics (I have to emphasize that, their on-board USB support often enough sucks) not so much if at all.

But the root issue might still not be the graphics card as such, but the USB support on the motherboard.

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Registered: 2018-02-22
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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

MC wrote:

We have heard many horror stories from nVidia, but ATI/AMD graphics (I have to emphasize that, their on-board USB support often enough sucks) not so much if at all.

But the root issue might still not be the graphics card as such, but the USB support on the motherboard.

As I'm using a Sonnet Allegro PCIE USB3 card and not the USB on the motherboard, shouldn't that rule out the motherboard USB being the issue?

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  • ramses
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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

will_m wrote:
MC wrote:

We have heard many horror stories from nVidia, but ATI/AMD graphics (I have to emphasize that, their on-board USB support often enough sucks) not so much if at all.

But the root issue might still not be the graphics card as such, but the USB support on the motherboard.

As I'm using a Sonnet Allegro PCIE USB3 card and not the USB on the motherboard, shouldn't that rule out the motherboard USB being the issue?

No. If i.e. one of your installed drivers should block CPU cores for too long when executing driver code (DPC's)
then the CPU is blocked for audio related processes.

You have the Sonnet card to get an USB chipset which is compliant to USB without flaws and that comes with a good USB driver for it. But if there are issues on the PC caused by other driver/hardware, then you can still have bad luck.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2018-02-22
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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

ramses wrote:

If i.e. one of your installed drivers should block CPU cores for too long when executing driver code (DPC's)
then the CPU is blocked for audio related processes.

You have the Sonnet card to get an USB chipset which is compliant to USB without flaws and that comes with a good USB driver for it. But if there are issues on the PC caused by other driver/hardware, then you can still have bad luck.

OK thanks, I did try a test with LatencyMon before I had the UFX hooked up, the results were very low, lower than any system I've ever run before and it reported no issues. I chose the motherboard as its one of the ones they use at Scan 3XS (Audio PC Builders) so I was fairly confident it could run audio without such driver issues.

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  • ramses
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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

Sorry, but what do you describe as low ? This is so "suibjective" and "relative".
Besides this LatencyMon has 3 different measuring methods where i.e. under Win10 kernel latency measuring seems to be broken and does not deliver reasonable results.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

12 Reply by will_m (edited by will_m 2020-03-11 19:25:29)

  • Registered: 2018-02-22
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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

ramses wrote:

Sorry, but what do you describe as low ? This is so "suibjective" and "relative".
Besides this LatencyMon has 3 different measuring methods where i.e. under Win10 kernel latency measuring seems to be broken and does not deliver reasonable results.

I understand, sorry I had to switch a few components back in to get access again, here's the results I got from before.

https://i.imgur.com/DTgK9D2.png

I'll try and do another on the weekend though as this was early install just Windows, chipset drivers and a few basic programs.

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13 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2020-03-11 20:02:49)

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Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

How do you measure ? Under load or on an idle system ?
I recommend to do the latter to see how "idle" your system really is and to better see the basic load of your system.

For how long, measure at least 5-10 min or even longer if you have load problems caused by application starts that happen based on the tasks in the task system ("Aufgabendienst").

So simply reboot, fresh login, start LatencyMon, don't perform any other tasks, avoid to move th mouse.
Avoid running applications causing network access, turn WLAN down.

Are applications opened / running or not ? What applications, do they have network connections open ? For how long do you measure ? What energy profile do you use ?
Ensure to choose the proper energy profile High Performance.
Ensure to deactivate energy saving in the BIOS (No C-States, T-States, P-States, C1E).
EIST and Turbo can be left activated.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2018-02-22
  • Posts: 52

Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

ramses wrote:

How do you measure ? Under load or on an idle system ?
I recommend to do the latter to see how "idle" your system really is and to better see the basic load of your system.

For how long, measure at least 5-10 min or even longer if you have load problems caused by application starts that happen based on the tasks in the task system ("Aufgabendienst").

So simply reboot, fresh login, start LatencyMon, don't perform any other tasks, avoid to move th mouse.
Avoid running applications causing network access, turn WLAN down.

Are applications opened / running or not ? What applications, do they have network connections open ? For how long do you measure ? What energy profile do you use ?
Ensure to choose the proper energy profile High Performance.
Ensure to deactivate energy saving in the BIOS (No C-States, T-States, P-States, C1E).
EIST and Turbo can be left activated.

That result was run at idle after a fresh restart, I just leave it for about 10 minutes without interacting with the computer. Wifi was disabled, LAN was not. No applications running, energy profile is a custom high performance one.

This is my first AMD build and I'm pretty lost in the BIOS in terms of disabling C-States, T-States, P-States, C1E etc. Normally on Intel its pretty straightforward but everything seems to have a different name, so for now the only changes I've made are to enable Thunderbolt, disable onboard sound, disable wi-fi, disable bluetooth and enable XMP memory profile.

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15 Reply by deliad (edited by deliad 2020-03-16 00:56:37)

  • Registered: 2020-01-18
  • Posts: 18

Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

will_m wrote:
ramses wrote:

How do you measure ? Under load or on an idle system ?
I recommend to do the latter to see how "idle" your system really is and to better see the basic load of your system.

For how long, measure at least 5-10 min or even longer if you have load problems caused by application starts that happen based on the tasks in the task system ("Aufgabendienst").

So simply reboot, fresh login, start LatencyMon, don't perform any other tasks, avoid to move th mouse.
Avoid running applications causing network access, turn WLAN down.

Are applications opened / running or not ? What applications, do they have network connections open ? For how long do you measure ? What energy profile do you use ?
Ensure to choose the proper energy profile High Performance.
Ensure to deactivate energy saving in the BIOS (No C-States, T-States, P-States, C1E).
EIST and Turbo can be left activated.

That result was run at idle after a fresh restart, I just leave it for about 10 minutes without interacting with the computer. Wifi was disabled, LAN was not. No applications running, energy profile is a custom high performance one.

This is my first AMD build and I'm pretty lost in the BIOS in terms of disabling C-States, T-States, P-States, C1E etc. Normally on Intel its pretty straightforward but everything seems to have a different name, so for now the only changes I've made are to enable Thunderbolt, disable onboard sound, disable wi-fi, disable bluetooth and enable XMP memory profile.


You have to try to put your Sonnet USB Card on The First or Second Slot ONLY!

(The long x16 PCIe Slots)

Actually on the second because your first is already in use by your GPU

because the 1st and 2nd PCIe Slots are driven from the CPU Directly and not by the X570 chipset like the other ones

If you can't install it on the second slot, you must try do it with Raiser PCI-E x4 cable from the second slot to the sonnet card and mount the card some way

Also try to set your PCI-e slots mode to Gen3

If you cant install the Sonnet on these slots now, install remote control app like teamviewer on your PC set it to run as a service and set permanent password so you can log in anytime

Remove your GPU

Boot up your computer,  yes, it will boot without the GPU, and then run your sound tests, if everything works well, thank me and buy raiser cable to be able to use it from slot 2.

That should work

Btw, you got that sonnet card right?
USB3-PRO-4PM-E

?

16 Reply by will_m (edited by will_m 2020-03-23 18:11:15)

  • Registered: 2018-02-22
  • Posts: 52

Re: Fifo / USB Errors with UFX+

deliad wrote:

You have to try to put your Sonnet USB Card on The First or Second Slot ONLY!

(The long x16 PCIe Slots)

Actually on the second because your first is already in use by your GPU

because the 1st and 2nd PCIe Slots are driven from the CPU Directly and not by the X570 chipset like the other ones

If you can't install it on the second slot, you must try do it with Raiser PCI-E x4 cable from the second slot to the sonnet card and mount the card some way

Also try to set your PCI-e slots mode to Gen3

If you cant install the Sonnet on these slots now, install remote control app like teamviewer on your PC set it to run as a service and set permanent password so you can log in anytime

Remove your GPU

Boot up your computer,  yes, it will boot without the GPU, and then run your sound tests, if everything works well, thank me and buy raiser cable to be able to use it from slot 2.

That should work

Btw, you got that sonnet card right?
USB3-PRO-4PM-E

After trying the USB card in the second slot I thought I had the problem solved but unfortunately its still there, although seems less frequent and is always related to something graphical like video playback in Cubase.

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