Topic: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

Hello people,

Hope everyone is well!

I finally purchased an RME Digiface USB a couple of weeks ago. When I received it, I did a quick installation to verify that everything's fine and a quick check with headphones. However, I didn't have time to test it further (digital connections, clocking, etc.)

I had some empty slots this weeked and I thought that it would be a good chance to finally update my system. Unfortunately, I'm facing some issues with the clocking.

I have tried with several devices since I have a two rigs. A mobile that I mostly use for recordings and the desktop which I use for mixing.

With any device, external clocking doesn't seem to work as expected. None of the Sync leds lights up and the Input status section remains with No Lock. Am I missing anything here?

The other devices that I tried to clock with are Apogee Rosetta 800 and Audient iD22. I haven't tried yet with the other converters (Apogee AD/DA 16X) yet. I have used 2 different Toslink cables which were ordered with the RME device, so they are completely new.

I have updated the device to the latest firmware (14) and I have also checked that all the other devices are up to date, too.

I'm linking an image from the digiface panel, too. https://ibb.co/mF6JDn0 (sorry for the link but I couldn't find how to upload an image with the forum tools)


Thanks in advance for any help!

T.

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

Sending images to the forum is very similar to all other forum software packages, you upload pictures to cloud storage, export it there, put the link in here and surround it with image tags.

Look here for instructions that I wrote:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rum-EN-DE/

Do each of your external devices have ADAT IN ?
Then you can make the RME device to clock master and all external devices get the clock from RME.

Set RME device to clock master: clock mode "internal" in  RME driver settings dialog.
Then you need TOSLINK cables from the RME device to each of the other devices for the purpose of clock transmission.
On each of the other devices you need to configure the device to get the clock from its ADAT IN port.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

Thank you very much for the reply ramses.

ramses wrote:

Sending images to the forum is very similar to all other forum software packages, you upload pictures to cloud storage, export it there, put the link in here and surround it with image tags.

Look here for instructions that I wrote:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rum-EN-DE/

Thank you very much for the guide! Apologies but I'm not very familiar with forums (it's my 4th post here smile ). I'm going to check the guide ASAP.

ramses wrote:

Do each of your external devices have ADAT IN ?

Yes, of course! Both Apogee Rosetta 800 and Audient iD22 have ADAT i/o. Rosetta supports SMUX, too.

ramses wrote:

Then you can make the RME device to clock master and all external devices get the clock from RME.

What would be the Sync Status in this case?
And what if I want to use RME as slave?
What would be the Input Status in both cases?

It's very different from what I see in manual or some other images around the web. I'm confused because the Sync leds are always off (with rme as master or slave) and the Input status is always set to No Lock and without any information about the input - samplling rate - etc.

4 (edited by ramses 2020-03-23 11:54:30)

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

> Yes, of course! Both Apogee Rosetta 800 and Audient iD22 have ADAT i/o. Rosetta supports SMUX, too.

I had no time to lookup the devices and what ADAT ports they offer in particular.
Typically preamps have only ADAT OUT ports which makes sense if they have no analog out ports
to which such inbound digital signals could be routed to.

I do not have it in my mind what status message appears when.
But in general terms .. if the cables are working and if the settings are proper
- one side master (clock internal)
- other side slave (clock from ADAT / or whatever digital input)
it should work.

There are many threads on the forum about clocking, i.e. this, that could be helpful.
This here is a nice example of what you could do, if one external device does not have ADAT IN...
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 47#p150847

Why I prefer to have clock at the device which is connected to the PC ?
Then you can set the sample rate in the DAW project.
This makes proper settings to the RME device via ASIO driver.
And all the external devices which are connected by ADAT can learn automatically the proper clock rate through ADAT.
So no more actions / setting changes are required at Hardware level...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

5

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

The Settings dialog shows you in the most clear way possible that there is no input signal reaching the optical inputs of the DF USB. So what cables did you plug in there? And from where? And with what kind of signal?

It seems you did not plug any input signal, and expect the DF USB Settings dialog to know about the clock state of external slave units. How could it know that?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

Hello Matthias,

Thanks for your reply!

MC wrote:

The Settings dialog shows you in the most clear way possible that there is no input signal reaching the optical inputs of the DF USB. So what cables did you plug in there? And from where? And with what kind of signal?

- I used Sommer toslink cables (https://www.thomann.de/gr/sommer_cable_ … bel_3m.htm)

Conection Example
- I connected the ADAT Output of Audient iD22 to the ADAT Input 1 of RME Digiface Usb.
- I connected the ADAT Output 1 of RME Digiface Usb to the ADAT Input of Audient iD22
- Clock Source: ADAT 1 and then Internal (while I set the clock source of Audient to optical)
- Sample Rate 44.100

- I used a tone generator as signal through my DAW.

MC wrote:

It seems you did not plug any input signal, and expect the DF USB Settings dialog to know about the clock state of external slave units. How could it know that?

Apologies but it's possible that I have misunderstood the Input Status panel.
Does the input status panel and Sync leds update only when there's input signal?

Thank you in advance for your time!

T.

7

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

Takis wrote:

Apologies but it's possible that I have misunderstood the Input Status panel.
Does the input status panel and Sync leds update only when there's input signal?

Exactly.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

Takis wrote:

Does the input status panel and Sync leds update only when there's input signal?

You bought a device with a fine manual, this information is all there and in two languages: de/en wink

Manual, page 13:

Input Status:

Indicates presence of a valid signal at the optical input 1-4 (Lock, No Lock) and whether the signal is synchronous (Sync). The third column shows the sample frequency detected by the hardware (coarse recognition, 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz etc.). In Clock Mode the clock reference is shown. See also chapter 26.1.

Manual, page 65:

26.1 Lock and SyncCheck

Digital signals consist of a carrier and the data. If a digital signal is applied to an input, the receiver has to synchronize to the carrier clock in order to read the data correctly. To achieve this, the receiver uses a PLL (Phase Locked Loop). As soon as the receiver meets the exact frequency of the incoming signal, it is locked.
This Lock state remains even with small changes of the frequency, because the PLL tracks the receiver's frequency.

If an ADAT signal is applied to the Digiface USB, the SYNC input LED starts flashing. The unit indicates LOCK, i. e. a valid input signal (in case the signal is in sync the LED is constantly lit, see below).

Unfortunately, LOCK does not necessarily mean that the received signal is correct with respect to the clock which processes the read out of the embedded data. Example]: The Digiface USB is set to 44.1 kHz internally (clock mode Master), and a mixing desk with ADAT output is connected to the ADAT input. The LED will show LOCK immediately, but usually the mixing desk's sample rate is generated internally (being Master), and thus slightly higher or lower than the Digiface USB's internal sample rate. Result: When reading out the data, there will frequently be read errors that cause clicks and drop outs.

In order to display those problems optically at the device, the Digiface USB includes Sync-
Check. It checks all clocks used for synchronicity. If they are not synchronous to each other (i.e. absolutely identical) the SYNC LED flashes. In case they are completely synchronous the LED is constantly lit. In the above example the user would have noticed quickly that the LED kept on flashing after connecting the mixing desk.

The same information is presented in the Digiface USB's Settings dialog. In the status display Input State the state of the input clock is decoded and shown as simple text (No Lock, Lock, Sync).

In practice, SyncCheck allows for a quick overview of the correct configuration of all digital devices. So one of the most difficult and error-prone topics of the digital studio world finally becomes easy to handle.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

Takis wrote:

- I used Sommer toslink cables (https://www.thomann.de/gr/sommer_cable_ … bel_3m.htm)

Tip: In my personal opinion the TOSLINK cables from Sommer Cable are a bit too stiff / inflexible.
If TOSLINK sockets are close together the handling is not so good and
with tighter cable radii (if you roll up excess cable) there can be lateral pulling forces on the plugs.

Therefore I personally prefer to use the cable from Mutek.
If you have more than one cable, it is also better suited to be led through cable channels.
You can also twist several cables so that they have better "guidance" and don't lie around mixed up.

https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_optisches_kabel_3m.htm

The quality of these cables is execellent, I use several of them with length up to 15m where 192 kHz still work between an UFX+ and an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE and there is even a TOSLINK switcher in between and additional 0.5 or 1m behind it.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

10 (edited by Takis 2020-03-23 15:27:30)

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

Thank for your replies!

ramses wrote:

Therefore I personally prefer to use the cable from Mutek.

Ineed, Mogami cables are too stiff and not very flexible. They looked very solid and I thought they would be the best option. I'm going to update them in the next weeks. Thank you very much for your suggestion. Mutec cables look fine.

ramses wrote:

You bought a device with a fine manual, this information is all there and in two languages: de/en wink

To be honest, I have read the manual multiple times before posting here. I'm sorry, but as I said maybe I have misunderstood the sync operation in th  RME device.

Actually, I still don't understand which point I'm missing exactly from the manual, because I think that I have followed the instructions and my connectivity is correct. I'm going to repeat the process in a couple of hours.

Anyway, thank both of you for your help and sorry if I'm wasting your time.

T.

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

It was me, not MC, referring to TFM wink

Sometimes it appears to me, that only few ppl consult the manual, I personally regard this as a missed chance to get quick help. I personally hope, when quoting / pointing to the manual, that people see / recognize that it contains useful information.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME Digiface Usb - Sync Issue

Hello people,

Hope you are well and healthy! smile

I'm posting because I had some updates since the last time that we talked, but I totally forgot to.

Summing up, the problem had to do with the toslink cables. Actually, there were 2 issues:
- The first cable was totally misfunctional (unfortunately it's not covered by thomann's warranty)

- The second had a bad designed plastic contour, which required some extra push in order to connect with the Digiface

I guess I did 2 out of 2. big_smile All is well now and works perfectly!
Also, lesson learned.. Don't use heavy duty toslink cables!


Last but not least, ramses and Matthias thank you very much for your help! Kudos to the RME support, too. smile