Topic: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

Hi,

I received ADI-2 Pro FS BE a few minutes ago. RME Flash installed on Mac. Checked USB interface using 3/4 headphones out and Focal Clear Professional headphones. Lovely rendition of truth into ears. I have 4 questions:

1. I graduated from RME Babyface (Original). Do I not need TotalMix FX in order to use the AD converter part of ADI-2 Pro like I did with Babyface?

2. I own a used MixPre-10-II from Sound Devices for my field recording/mixing that can also be used for studio-recording and as USB audio interface. But, is there any way I can replace it with ADI-2 in my audio chain (if ADI-2 is sporting better converters and DSP as it is likely to)? I mean, is it possible to use ADI-2's XLR or digital inputs (connected to condenser microphones) and (USB port to MacBook) for recording and mixing in studio? Can this be done or would I need another device in combination with ADI-2?

3. The extremely super directional Schoeps Super CMIT shotgun mic has AES42 digital output. Could this be connected to ADI-2 in any way and for recording vocals (in a garage/studio that is not sound-treated for street noise and therefore cardioid condenser mics aren't suitable)?

4. Could ADI-2 be used in the place of MixPre to function as a field recorder/mixer as a stand-alone or as connected to camera?

Would appreciate any answers and advise.

Thank you.

2

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

The ADI does not support TotalMix, neither has it microphone inputs nor support for digital microphones.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

Thank you, Mr.Mathias. I just started reading the manual to explore how best I can exploit this heavenly creature beyond the excellent ADDA conversion functions which originally driven my purchase decision.

More than the well-documented tech achievements your devices carry, it is the empathy in design in your products that I started falling in love with, I must admit: the conscious placement of 3/4 headphones output port away from the volume knob, instead of next to it where 1/2 sits now, defying the traditional order; and spiral-bound manuals instead of hardbound or paperbound that are not so page-turning-friendly (and super smooth high-GSM paper and color printing instead of industry standard monochrome prints) are just the two empathetic design decisions I noticed in the first 30 minutes after I opened the product from out of its box. I am sure this is just the beginning of a beautiful friendship with RME ecosystem for me who only used the basic Babyface till now.

Again, thank you for the great work you all are doing.

4 (edited by KaiS 2020-04-28 12:49:36)

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

Subh wrote:

2... is it possible to use ADI-2's XLR or digital inputs (connected to condenser microphones) and (USB port to MacBook) for recording and mixing in studio? Can this be done or would I need another device in combination with ADI-2?

3. The extremely super directional Schoeps Super CMIT shotgun mic has AES42 digital output. Could this be connected to ADI-2 in any way and for recording vocals (in a garage/studio that is not sound-treated for street noise and therefore cardioid condenser mics aren't suitable)?

2. ADI-2 Pro's XLR Ins don't have 48V Phantom Power for P48 powered condenser mic's.

Even when used with an external P48 PSU in most cases they don't have enough gain to be useful as Mic Inputs.
Only with loud sources and highly sensitive (loud) mic's like the Neumann M149 (tube mic with it's own PSU, doesn't need P48) it can work.
Else use an analog mic pre.


3. If you use an external 10V AES42 PSU for powering the digital mic it should work on ADI-2 Pro's AES input.
https://schoeps.de/produkte/zubehoer/ae … d-2-u.html
price: 195€
Personally I have no way to practically test this.

Here's comprehensive information about digital mic's, see page 11:
https://www.hauptmikrofon.de/doc/WhiteP … ay2010.PDF



Even in an untreated room a classic studio LDC (Large Diaphrag Condenser mic) in close proximity will likely be superior to even the best shotgun, for non-speach vocals.

Shotgun mic's, opposed to LDCs, are built to work best at some distance.

An LDC, used from 4-10cm will not pick much room sound.
If it's still too much, you can place a soft cloth blanket in folds (not flat) 50cm behind the microphone.

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

Even with external power supply, there's no way to control the gain on a digital mic here... There are also special contraptions in the market to be put behind and around microphones to block out ambient sound. Have never personally tried one, though. Lavaliers or so are another option.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

6 (edited by KaiS 2020-04-28 21:17:17)

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

RME Support wrote:

Even with external power supply, there's no way to control the gain on a digital mic here... There are also special contraptions in the market to be put behind and around microphones to block out ambient sound. Have never personally tried one, though. Lavaliers or so are another option.

Level is controlled in the recording software with digital microphones.
Some digital microphones have a pad located in the analog domain.
This is switched by changing the power supply from 10 to 12 V.

Lavalier microphones are sub optimal sound wise, because of the strange placement on the chest away from the mouth.
They even do not suppress room/ambient sounds quite well.
Lavaliers are made for situations where the microphone has to be quasi invisible, or where people need their hands free.

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

Thank you very much, KaiS and Daniel. I have decided to go with LDC mic at 5-10cm inside a portable sound-booth for dubbing dialogue in my garage and use shotguns and lavs only for field work. Also, at a later date, I might need to record 2 vocals and 3-4 instruments too simultaneously which necessitates proper studio gear. Presently I own Sound Devices MixPre-10-II that can handle field/studio recording and mixing. But,

1. is there anyway I can include ADI-2 Pro in my chain to improve the quality of recording in field/studio? I love the ADDA results coming from ADI-2 Pro but I don’t want it to remain a stand-alone singles champ and not be part of a bigger team for a bigger cause. DSD recording and headphone comparisons are two, although, rare, offside jobs it can do. Anything else, preferably in studio/field recording world, in the middle of a longer chain?

2. Were you saying, ADI-2 Pro with a mic-pre device, could work for studio recording? If so, could you suggest a good mic-pre from RME stables? (I am very sorry, I am a writer-director now trying to make possible home-recording of dialogue/SFX/sound tracks for a music student I might hire for recording/mixing and I am not able to compare well all the products on RME site.)

3. Or, avoiding 2 and 3, if I were to pick from RME shop just one single desktop/portable device that can handle studio recording (8 or more inputs) without needing another device in the chain - just my Mac and mics and this new device you would recommend, something of ADI-2 Pro calibre or more, what would it be?

4. Could you also, if you don’t mind, suggest 2 or 3 LDCs with multiple polar patterns that I can pick one from? Preferably a German product. Neumann M 149 is one. Please suggest  2 or 3 more.

Thank you.

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

If money is not a limiting factor, then get a combination of UFX+ and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE and ARC USB for more comfort.

I put together information about UFX II / +, price difference is small, so get the UFX+:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/

The ADI-2 Pro * products can nicely be integrated into your setup:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

Enjoy !

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9735), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

9 (edited by KaiS 2020-04-30 00:16:50)

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

It's hard for me to suggest an interface out of the RME stable.
No single interface gives you the minimum you need.
• USB
• Totalmix FX
• 8 microphone I/Os
• Monitor section with 2 independent headphone outputs.

The mentioned "RME UFX II +" comes close, only lacking 4 mic inputs.
Adding "RME Quad-Mic II" solves this, with the option to add one more if you need 12 mic inputs (might happen sooner then you think).

ADI-2 Pro can optionally be hooked to the UFX's digital i/o, to add some high quality converter/DSP/monitoring.
But the setup above is still complete without.

The mentioned ARC USB remote adds comfort and usability.


Microphone suggestions:

• Neumann U87, LDC,  for dialog - the global standard, can't do without.
It's fine for all types of instruments too.
Maybe get a pair for double voice over.
But quite costly.

• Neumann M149, LDC tube mic, for singers, warmer sounding alternative.
Not cheap too.

• 2 AKG C414 XL II, LDC, for (not only, but female) singers, universal instrument mic too, cheap, for an LDC.

• 4 Sennheiser MD521 dynamic, fits lots of instruments, e.g. all kind of percussions, horns ...

• 2 Neumann KMS105BK stage condenser, great mic for live or other close up vocals, and wind instruments, cheap.

• 4 Shure SM57, dynamic, instruments, and with it's dedicated foam pop filter, speech and (female) singers, super cheap.

• 2 Shure SM58, dynamic, universal standard.
Be careful with the Shure's, there are more fakes then originals.
You want the real thing.
Still super-cheap!


The dynamics are for special purpose, they have huge colorations of the sound, that's why they can be a perfect fit for some tasks and a complete fail for others.

The LDCs, even though they widely vary by price, are all kind of neutral, their sound difference does spread less then their price diff. might imply.
Each of them will deliver on every source.


Don't forget to add enough microphone stands, in Germany the Koenig&Meyer are pro standard.
There are 10kg extra weights available to mount, for use with heavy mic's, else stands will skip and mic's will break.

For singers and speach you need pop-filters too.

10 (edited by ramses 2020-04-29 14:53:35)

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

You are right Kai, sorry I overlooked his demand for up to 8 Mics ...

Lets work after the exclusion principle, I would exclude:
- PCIe cards that would require an external thunderbolt case (even more cases and add-on costs)
- ADAT based solutions, better take MADI, you can scale better if needed -> sustainability of purchase !!
- mix of different form factors, stay with 19", there are small ECO racks with only 23cm depth

What remains is a USB / Thunderbolt  based solution which is ideal for Apple as Apple supports with most modern devices thunderbolt. The thunderbolt driver (at least with PCs) supports also the pitch function, which is nice to have if needed.

I would place the ADI-2 Pro/* on top of the rack and connect it via TOSLINK because then you do not need the breakout cable for AES and the AES cables are thicker ..
You should take 1 RU as spare for airflow as UFX+ and XTC both generate heat, not as much as ADI-2 Pro, but I would simply do it for the sake of potentially a little longer lifetime of electronic components ... so you need 3 RU.
Thomann ECO racks with 23cm depth are ideal .. does not consume much space.
As an option: the placement of the rack can be very flexible if you use a 5m Lindy premium USB3 cable

Racks, 3 + 4 RU (if you want to rack ADI-2 Pro/* as well)
- 3 RU 23cm depth https://www.thomann.de/de/thon_3he_compact_rack.htm            €85
- 4 RU 23cm depth https://www.thomann.de/de/thon_rack_4he … ompact.htm €89

Recording Interface:
UFX+ - https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_ufx_2.htm €2222

Remote for UFX+: I would take it for comfort, a no brainer .. very useful:
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_arc_usb.htm €129

Mic Preamp:
Octamic XTC integrates nicely into TM FX as AUX device and supports 4x AES, class compliant mode for iPAD, ...
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_octamic_xtc.htm €1950
Alternatively you could wait for the 12Mic.
But then I would check manual, whether AUX device support is possible via MIDI over MADI.
AUXDEVICE is extremely useful, as you can save most parameters of each Mic Input digitally in TM FX snapshots and by this recall your whole settings (routing and settings of UFX+ and XTC ) by a mouse click...A real time saver.

MADI cabling:
For MADI cabling you need 1m OM3:
https://www.thomann.de/de/pro_snake_lwl … om3_1m.htm  €9,40

ADAT / TOSLINK cabling ADI-2 Pro / UFX+:
To connect the ADI-2 Pro I would use TOSLINK, AES would require the breakout cable, this way you can avoid this:
https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_optisches_kabel_1m.htm  €6,50

So your dream setup could consist of theses devices:
UFX+                                                 €2222
ARC USB                                            €  129
ADI-2 Pro FS R BE                              €1759
Octamic XTC                                      €1950
Thon Rack 3HE Eco II Compact Rack €   85
OM3 fibler cable 1m                          €     9,40
Mutec TOSLINK cable, 1m                 €     6,50
================================
TOTAL                                               €6160,90

A wonderful setup that I can recommend.

Plus the costs for Mic stands as KaiS mentioned ...

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9735), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

Re: Newbie. TotalMixFX not needed for ADI-2 Pro?

Hi KaiS and Ramses.

Please find my replies here on this new thread “Newbie Seeking Recording SetUp Advice” I created:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 58#p153658