• Registered: 2019-03-23
  • Posts: 6

Topic: Add VST slot feature

Dear all, I'd love to have a slot to load VST plugin into the Totalmix outputs channels using host computer CPU.
Here you are a scenario: I'm a classical music location recording engineer, using 3 different headphones to monitor my tracking (one for me, one for the producer and one for the conductor when he wish to come in and listen back to the recorded performance).
One pair is connected to the Benchmark DAC1 via AES/EBU, the other two to the UFX+ headphones outputs.
It should be great if I could use three instances of Sonaworks Reference software to correct the three different curves of my headphones, while also using Goodhertz CanOpener crossfeed filter on all channels.
And, maybe, while in the studio, being able to load at the same time one instance of Sonarworks Reference on the main output.

Hope you can add this feature in upcoming versions of Totalmix FX :-)

RME UFX+, Octamic XTC
Benchmark DAC1, Sennheiser HD660S
Schoeps MK2S, 21, 4, 41, KM184, TLM103, C414

2 Reply by hselters (edited by hselters 2019-03-24 03:16:04)

  • Registered: 2018-12-21
  • Posts: 264

Re: Add VST slot feature

Would be great having that option in Total Mix.
I am using Total Mix‘s loopback function to send the monitor output to 3 instances of Sonarworks VSTs, correcting 2 different pairs of speakers and 1 pair of headphones where I am also applying a Canz3D crossfeed VST. Using Max to host the VST‘s and controlling Total Mix via OSC.
It’s working fine but it could be more efficient and less heavy on the CPU, either through Total Mix hosting the VSTs directly or - even better - if the DSP‘s on the RME Interfaxes would have an integrated room correction, e.g. some sophisticated FIR filters not just some 3-band EQ.
Speaker manufacturers are more and more getting into this, see the Genelec GLM or Adam announcing a collaboration with Sonarworks, i hope RME is not sleeping on this and integrating it in their interface’s DSP chips which could solve this once and for all, also for correcting headphones.

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-03-24 11:16:17)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,041

Re: Add VST slot feature

Several times the wish has been expressed to make VSTs loadable in TotalMix FX.

RME always answers that they don't want to endanger the stability of TotalMix FX by loading 3rd party VSTs.

Frankly, nobody is really interested into such a feature, all RME users are happy that TotalMix FX is so stable.

It's already a known thing that 3rd Party VSTs are one of the main causes of instability in DAW's.
Do you want this now also in TotalMix FX ?!

Another thing is that RME always would have to find out first if a problem or crash was caused by TotalMix FX or a 3rd party VST. Then RME would have to buy all possible VSTs to test it if in doubt. This would cause a lot of efforts (time, money).

RME certainly has no increased interest in this. Something like this would only lead to a lot of development and support work. In addition, RME would then somehow always have to prove to the user that it is VST and not TotalMix FX in the case of an issue.

This has a big potential to make customers dissatisfied, because they have surely high expectation, that such a VST interface should work. Nobody would have an understanding that such a VST interface simply means, to execute foreign code in your program, which of course can impact the stability (and security) of your own software.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

4 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,823

Re: Add VST slot feature

I couldn't have said it better.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2018-12-21
  • Posts: 264

Re: Add VST slot feature

I understand the concerns regarding vsts, but what about implementing an RME solution for room correction directly in Total Mix? Is that something thinkable for the future?

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,647

Re: Add VST slot feature

Using the loopback function , which needs one free input pair, you can us any VST hosting program to add VST capability to your totalmix.
This will of course add latency but so would an RME solution, because there will always be a trip to the cpu and back involved to process a vst.
If you need to add FX to inputs this can of course be done without loopback in any vst host that has audio inputs.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-03-24 11:40:41)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,041

Re: Add VST slot feature

hselters wrote:

I understand the concerns regarding vsts, but what about implementing an RME solution for room correction directly in Total Mix? Is that something thinkable for the future?

What do you mean by this ? By having a more fine grained EQ with more bands, etc .. ?
Or what is your expectation from such a solution ?

For me the more pragmatic way is to optimize the room
or to take a 3rd party solution which you can use as plugin in your DAW or Music Player.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2018-12-21
  • Posts: 264

Re: Add VST slot feature

yes, something like FIR-Filters for the Hardware Outputs. The existent EQ is a little bit too basic for precise room corrections.

  • Registered: 2019-03-23
  • Posts: 6

Re: Add VST slot feature

Thanks a lot for all your replies.
I'm a software developer myself, too, so I totally understand the points of developments effort, unreliability of 3rd party plugins and maintenance in charge to RME support.
I'm now talking from a user point of view, and still found that it should be of a great help to have VST loading feature on TotalMix FX.
I love its stability and I can understand it could be compromised by external plugins; by the way that's a risk that I'd take in order to have VST loading capabilities. In any case, even if the TotalMix crashes, the communication with the DAW while recording is still unaffected, so the stability of RME drivers is not compromised by that add.

RME UFX+, Octamic XTC
Benchmark DAC1, Sennheiser HD660S
Schoeps MK2S, 21, 4, 41, KM184, TLM103, C414
  • Registered: 2013-07-14
  • Posts: 24

Re: Add VST slot feature

I am currently using Blue Cat's Patchwork in standalone to insert plugins in the audio chain outside of my DAW. It's sole purpose is to have an instance of Sonarworks Reference 4. As much as I love my RME products, I've often found this forum awfully closed to new ideas.

I've often read "this will never be possible" or "this is not what RME is about", "this idea will never fly" by narrow minded moderators even with a hint of arrogance. Not referring to this particular topic but let's just say I've stopped asking or hoping for innovative ideas as they are always met with close minded somewhat elitist attitude.

Bottom line, I have come to the conclusion that innovative ideas is not what RME is about and that's the kind of attitude that will have me look elsewhere next time I'm shopping for an audio interface.

That said, I've super happy with my Fireface UFX for close to 8 years now. The babyface worked wonders when I was touring so I'm not even thinking about changing now. For once I'd like to read "thanks that's a great idea, we'll think about implementing that".

Anyway I've been running Patchwork in standalone hosting Sonarworks for a year now and it has in no way hurt stability so I recommend this alternative for routing VSTs outside the DAW as "RME certainly has no increased interest in this".

Cheers,

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,647

Re: Add VST slot feature

fbeauvaisc wrote:

I am currently using Blue Cat's Patchwork in standalone to insert plugins in the audio chain outside of my DAW. It's sole purpose is to have an instance of Sonarworks Reference 4. As much as I love my RME products, I've often found this forum awfully closed to new ideas.

I've often read "this will never be possible" or "this is not what RME is about", "this idea will never fly" by narrow minded moderators even with a hint of arrogance. Not referring to this particular topic but let's just say I've stopped asking or hoping for innovative ideas as they are always met with close minded somewhat elitist attitude.

Bottom line, I have come to the conclusion that innovative ideas is not what RME is about and that's the kind of attitude that will have me look elsewhere next time I'm shopping for an audio interface.

That said, I've super happy with my Fireface UFX for close to 8 years now. The babyface worked wonders when I was touring so I'm not even thinking about changing now. For once I'd like to read "thanks that's a great idea, we'll think about implementing that".

Anyway I've been running Patchwork in standalone hosting Sonarworks for a year now and it has in no way hurt stability so I recommend this alternative for routing VSTs outside the DAW as "RME certainly has no increased interest in this".

Cheers,

With this subject, it is pretty factual, not possible. Only if an rme interface would have an x86 CPU onboard could it ever run vst`s. Only thing rme could do, and why would they, is something you are already using, like patchwork or PM-chainer only integrated. It would have the same latency and drawbacks as your solution, so why. It will need tremendous support and maintenance to work with all plugins. Better that a company that is not limited to RME hardware does that.
Or RME could buy one of those companies, still sell the stand alone software and integrate it in TMFX. Not that I am hoping that they do, lol.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632
  • From: Italy
  • Registered: 2014-06-14
  • Posts: 31

Re: Add VST slot feature

Sandboxed VST3 (or coming next version) wrapped version (.RVST format for example) certificated by and for RME could be a good solution, with additionally a virtual FX rack in TotalMix.

Saludos, Enrique

Saludos Enrique.

enriquesilveti's Website

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,041

Re: Add VST slot feature

enriquesilveti wrote:

Sandboxed VST3 (or coming next version) wrapped version (.RVST format for example) certificated by and for RME could be a good solution, with additionally a virtual FX rack in TotalMix.

Saludos, Enrique

Its easier to wish for something and hope for stability than to live with the consequences wink

I have doubts as things like this will simply increase code complexity and impact stability.

And even if something crashes in a sandbox and you can hope to survive the crash in the main application...
You will get audio interruptions that you may not want to have.

The way to go is to get a Live Mixer Application which is designed for all this stuff that you want.
Isn't something like this already available ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

14 Reply by ian

  • ian
  • New member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-11-08
  • Posts: 7

Re: Add VST slot feature

Ability to load a VST plugin in TotalMix would be a great boon for me.

I use 4-way monitors and do the crossing-over entirely in software, so I'm sending 8 channels of audio out to 8 channels of amplification.

The crossover I use is a VST plugin so this means I need some sort of VST host loaded all of the time.

It's not a problem if I'm just using a DAW because I can put the crossover in it's main output path and send 8 channels to TotalMix.

But if I want to use other software - for example a web browser - and listen to its output, I have to send a stereo pair to TotalMix, loop it back to an input, pick that input up in the DAW (or other VST host) and filter it into 8 channels to feed back to TotalMix. And that's all a bit painful. If TotalMix could handle it all that would be wonderful.

Personally, I don't really get the 'stablity' explanation for rejecting the VST host suggestion.

If I load a VST plugin into a host - eg Reaper, which is the DAW I use - and it crashes, do I blame Reaper? No way! I know it's excellent software and runs all manner of good plugins with 100% stability. The same would apply to TotalMix of course.

So not wanting to do this for fear of TotalMix's reputation seems over-cautious to me, to say the least. You have to credit your users with some intelligence!

I.

  • Registered: 2021-05-21
  • Posts: 6

Re: Add VST slot feature

Bumping this thread as i'm also looking for a way to control sonarworks while switching between monitors and I was thinking:

Can you setup the ARC as a midi controller in a daw? in this case, you can map the assignable buttons to sonarworks on/off switches in the daw, if it is at the same time configured as a monitor switcher, you can effectively switch your monitors and sonarworks profile with the click of one button right?

I don't have any RME hardware, but 100% buying it if you're able to set up the ARC as a DAW controller

  • Registered: 2021-05-21
  • Posts: 6

Re: Add VST slot feature

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 80#p170780 Seems like it is discussed here, very interested if anyone can comment with a proper explanation

  • Registered: 2019-11-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Add VST slot feature

Buy a UAD interface lol

  • Registered: 2011-07-21
  • Posts: 48

Re: Add VST slot feature

afrohambeats wrote:

Bumping this thread as i'm also looking for a way to control sonarworks while switching between monitors and I was thinking:

Can you setup the ARC as a midi controller in a daw? in this case, you can map the assignable buttons to sonarworks on/off switches in the daw, if it is at the same time configured as a monitor switcher, you can effectively switch your monitors and sonarworks profile with the click of one button right?

I don't have any RME hardware, but 100% buying it if you're able to set up the ARC as a DAW controller

That‘s what I do.
I have it setup 2-ways, once for Systemwide and once for my Daw (Reaper).
I‘d have to check how I actually managed to make it work, but it goes something like this:

- In Reaper, the ARC-Midi for Speaker B toggles bypass on two instances (one for each speakerset) of Sonarworks Plugin in my Monitoring-Chain. I just assigned the Midi-signal as keyboard shortcut.

- For systemwide (on mac here) you have to first filter out Sysex Data and then it starts a macro in Keyboardmaestro which switches the two profiles in Sonarworks systemwide. It‘s setup to only work if Reaper isn‘t the active program.

Best,
Frank

Happy Fireface UFX+, Octamic XTC and M-32 Pro user.
http://www.stoersender-studio.ch