1 Topic by pitchshift (edited by pitchshift 2020-06-10 16:01:50)

  • Registered: 2018-08-30
  • Posts: 15

Topic: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

I was considering getting a MOTU M4, but i've heard some people complaining about drop out issues, problems with the drivers and so on. I also don't like the fact that it has a super bright frontal panel LED, which would be annoying to me specially when im trying to watch a movie.

My main questions are:

-Is this still worth it in 2020? I see it has USB 2.0. It's a 10yo+ unit. How is the sound compared to MOTU M4? And how its the sound compared to the UCX? they just sound as clear and you can't differentiate and it would just be audiophile nonsense trying to claim there's audible difference? (im not talking about sound quality from the mic/pre amps, again don't play any instruments and stuff so I don't really care, I make electronic music all programmed and all with VSTs basically). I don't want the UCX because I don't see a justification for the price increase compared to UC.
-Are the drivers as solid as they say?
-Does RME support interfaces forever? Can I be sure to still be able to use it in 20 years because they will update drivers for Windows 15 or whatever is out by then?
-The fact that there isn't a physical knob dedicated to volume only worries me. In the sense of the unit malfunctioning for some reason and ignoring the knob position and blasting volume at max. Can this happen?
-Can I get rid of the lateral metal mounts for the rack? Im going to place the thing on top of my computer, so it would look better without those 2 metal flaps at the sides. I assume the box has 4 points of support below it to make it it sit on flat surfaces, or it's a rack only unit?
-If I put it on top of my computer, can this create any problems? Like sound interference, or eating? I've seen this guy say that the thing gets really warm in summer, this worries me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RhyEGD9jFs

I make electronic music and I don't use any hardware, other than my headphone pre amp from Schitt and my monitors. That's all. I like the clean look on my desktop, I don't want stuff on it, flashing lights and so on.

In any case I like the extra i/o that this box gives compared to the alternatives like the MOTU M4 in case in the future I decided to connect more stuff. But im just not convinced about buying a unit that by now it's considered rather old. But im not willing to spend more on it, and I would only buy it if RME is going to support it pretty much forever because after this I would see no need to ever replace it, so assuming they don't buy stuff with planned obsolence it may actually be worth the extra money compared to alternatives. If im not convinced i'll just get the M4.

  • Registered: 2014-12-22
  • Posts: 116

Re: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

Fireface UC and M4 are in vastly different price points. The babyface pro is more in line with M4.

If you're asking if the RME is worth it, then yes absolutely. From the various sound cards I've owned in the past, RME has provided the best, most rock-solid experience. In terms of buffer sizes, dropouts, etc. its one of the lowest. I just went and bought an even older interface from them. That should tell you something.

  • Registered: 2020-03-10
  • Posts: 112

Re: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

dude, buy the UC and use this forum for help.  i am using old ff400 and it kicks ass.

  • Registered: 2018-08-30
  • Posts: 15

Re: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

nateandrews wrote:

dude, buy the UC and use this forum for help.  i am using old ff400 and it kicks ass.

But I dont understand what do I gain vs motu m4. They both probably sound the same, and the m4 gives me enough i/o.

As long as drop outs, pops and crackles, I don't understand how UC would lower these. Isn't the heavy lifting to process VSTs and stuff done by the CPU anyway? And I have a 16 core Ryzen so I don't expect any performance issues.

I also don't play or record any instruments, so super latency isn't needed, as long as latency is not noticeable while pressing spacebar to play and while drawing midi notes with a mouse.

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,878

Re: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

> But I dont understand what do I gain vs motu m4. They both probably sound the same, and the m4 gives me enough i/o.

RME is known to have a true honest neutral sound. This is what I expect from a recording interface to capture the sound "as is" and not to add any "mojo" to it.

When reading for example in this review: https://www.amazona.de/test-motu-m2-m4- … nterfaces/
"The M2 offers the familiar MOTU sound, quite balanced with a shot of extra pressure in the mids."

I would prefer to use an EQ for this IF I want more Mids or to take a different Mic that does exactly this or supports the voice of the singer better.

> As long as drop outs, pops and crackles, I don't understand how UC would lower these

First of all not every company can write good drivers, and then you have to consider that RME does not use 3rd party communication chips in its devices. RME only uses programmable CPUs (FPGAs), which can be completely reprogrammed by a Flash update. Also the communication via USB with the PC is done by the internal FPGA. Thus RME has everything under control, and overall a higher quality of connection to the PC can be achieved, both in terms of
- Stability
- Number of supported channels (RME manages 68 IN and OUT via USB2 (!!!))
- low latencies (RTL, Round Trip Latency)

RME has made a name for itself in the industry, especially in the area of driver stability, performance and maintenance, setting high standards. Well, that may cost a "few pennies more", but RME devices have a long product cycle, and for some devices you can get driver updates and even additional features for 18 years now, which were not even planned for a device before. For example that you can now connect a remote control like the ARC USB to ANY RME recording interface that supports TotalMix FX.

These are things you probably don't know about yet, that's why you ask here, but that's what makes the difference.

With RME products you can assume that they are designed with a lot of attention to detail, you can't compare that with typical consumer devices in the range of up to €200-300.

All RME devices also use the same TM FX control software, which has been highly optimized and now shows the same excellent maturity level for all devices after about 20 years of development and further optimizations.

Other manufacturers go a different way and develop devices with a much shorter product cycle. They like to come with half-baken drivers and operating software, which is also laggy on some Motu devices which you can hear in reviews.

Also pay attention to phones output, RME offers also in this area a very good quality for recording interfaces.

Best is to get both devices and try them out, keep what makes more fun to work with.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2019-11-06
  • Posts: 140

Re: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

I used a MOTU Ultralite Mk3 for about 13 years before I had to get a new interface because MOTU dropped support for the Ultralite, and I got a new MacBook Pro which only ran Catalina. I’d always wanted an RME interface and one of the reasons for this is how long RME supports its devices. I don’t think any company is going to guarantee you 20 years of support but if any company has a track record of supporting older devices, it’s RME. I was happy with my Ultralite for a long time and MOTU is better than some companies in terms of supporting their devices, but RME is the company I’d bet on if you’re primarily looking for longevity.

7 Reply by pitchshift (edited by pitchshift 2020-06-13 18:49:09)

  • Registered: 2018-08-30
  • Posts: 15

Re: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

ramses wrote:

> But I dont understand what do I gain vs motu m4. They both probably sound the same, and the m4 gives me enough i/o.

RME is known to have a true honest neutral sound. This is what I expect from a recording interface to capture the sound "as is" and not to add any "mojo" to it.

When reading for example in this review: https://www.amazona.de/test-motu-m2-m4- … nterfaces/
"The M2 offers the familiar MOTU sound, quite balanced with a shot of extra pressure in the mids."

I would prefer to use an EQ for this IF I want more Mids or to take a different Mic that does exactly this or supports the voice of the singer better.


Like I said I don't really care about recording quality, im not going to record anything. I've seen people mention both are crystal clear in terms of sound (being played not recorded).

I would like to try both but I can't, so I will go with m4. If I get a dissapointing performance (I use tons of VSTs, effects and instruments) and I start getting like crackling and pops I will return it and give the UC a try.

  • Registered: 2019-11-06
  • Posts: 140

Re: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

pitchshift wrote:

I would like to try both but I can't, so I will go with m4. If I get a dissapointing performance (I use tons of VSTs, effects and instruments) and I start getting like crackling and pops I will return it and give the UC a try.

Wow, I'm a bit stunned by this decision given all the advice that has been provided.  Basically every response has advised you to go for RME but you're ignoring everyone and going with the M4? If you use "tons of VSTs, effects and instruments", I can say for a fact that you'll get far better performance with RME drivers....and I swore by MOTU for many years, so I'm not just an RME fanboy.  There's a significant performance difference between RME and MOTU drivers.

  • Registered: 2018-08-30
  • Posts: 15

Re: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

Maddcow wrote:
pitchshift wrote:

I would like to try both but I can't, so I will go with m4. If I get a dissapointing performance (I use tons of VSTs, effects and instruments) and I start getting like crackling and pops I will return it and give the UC a try.

Wow, I'm a bit stunned by this decision given all the advice that has been provided.  Basically every response has advised you to go for RME but you're ignoring everyone and going with the M4? If you use "tons of VSTs, effects and instruments", I can say for a fact that you'll get far better performance with RME drivers....and I swore by MOTU for many years, so I'm not just an RME fanboy.  There's a significant performance difference between RME and MOTU drivers.

I have a 3950x, it should deal with any CPU usage. The price difference from motu m4 to the Fireface is not justified in my case.

10 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2020-06-15 14:40:06)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,878

Re: Considering buying FireFace UC in 2020 and I have some questions

> I have a 3950x, it should deal with any CPU usage

Thats a very special topic and goes more into the direction how the application is able to utilize that many cores,
whether the Operating Process scheduler is able to nicely distribute the workload across the different chiplets,
because AMD doesn't use a monolithic CPU design with a L3-cache which is shared between all Cores.

RME driver quality goes more into the direction, that the driver is coded in an efficient way that RTL latencies are low.
If you compare RTL between different recording interfaces at the same sample rate and ASIO buffersize then you will
notice differences. And one of the very important aspects of RME design is here, that whatever communication is required
to the PC (USB/Fw/TB) is being handled inside of the FPGA which is under full control of RME, not by using 3rd party
communication chips. Thats a big difference, one pain point less that can be fully fixed by RME.

On the PC side you certainly heard already about problematic chipsets with bad USB implementation (which can't be fixed) where sometimes only add-on USB cards can fix most issues.

And even if sound is not interesting for you, you would notice a big difference in daily operation.
I still remember how often I felt limited by my Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 6+y ago.
A not good designed Mixersoftware is a strong painpoint in every days operation.

My last advice .. get both at shops like Thomann which give you 30d money back. Then you have enought time to try both and then draw a good decision for you. BTW nice CPU but the big question is whether you get it nicely utilized and how the non-RME drivers perform in terms of DPC latencies... CPU power alone doesn't solve all issues that might occurr when  having to deal with the real-time requirements of audio processing. Esp. if CPU hungry VST and VSTi pile up and depending on your DAW project structure whether you use e.g. many sends in a track .. or have many of such tracks. An audio workload can be very different.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13