101 Reply by maartenl (edited by maartenl 2019-07-26 11:00:33)

  • Registered: 2019-04-25
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Pitrs wrote:
maartenl wrote:
Pitrs wrote:

willem:
May I kindly ask you to share a link of any my post in this thread where I "argue for another preamplifier".
With all respect - I did not write a single word supporting this idea. Looking forward the link.

Pitrs wrote:

And to the question: I use ADI-2 PRO as DAC only having it connected to Parasound P5 preamp.

Nice try, but get ready to laugh::you lost it again. Willem was writing about my arguing for pre. Sorry mate big_smile.

There is no argue, my post is a simple factual statement of my connection.

Ridiculos how vainly you try to "get me". You see arguing even in the simplest factual statement. Being driven just by this negativity you always get the shorter straw. And it makes you trying harder with even less success. And on and on. This thread shows it clearly. Enjoy.

Hi Pitrs (Audio God), you are right on this one. Enjoy. And again thanks, I really appreciate and enjoy your posts a lot. Always best to have a laugh, even if I get the shorter straw once a while, but hey I am human not an (audio) God... ;-P

  • Registered: 2019-05-30
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Is this forum always such a sh*tshow?

You share your experience and bunch of people attack you because it doesn't match 100% with their experience (they call it "facts") - and pretty much all equipment including the room, is different, except RME DAC.  But you are wrong!

Can we just have civilized discussion and learn from each other? Be happy if somebody found "better" sound they like or that fills their needs (in case of sound engineers...)

In audio, even we can measure so many things, at the end of the day most correct answer is "it depends", and lets not let trolls take over the thread

~~ sound sommelier ~~
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

hhrvoje wrote:

Is this forum always such a sh*tshow?

No, it is not!

Foul talk and sarcasm is pretty much isolated to this particular subforum. The vast majority of RME products are geared towards audio-engineers, but the ADI-2 Pro (and derivatives) has obvious audiophile appeal - which very predictably leads to somewhat of a culture clash when those two different "schools of thought" engage each other on a forum.

.. and it is easy for engineers to get triggered when reading "unsubstantiated" claims; an example of this could be your own post: ["I use Primaluna Prologue Premium preamp (with Mullard and RCA NOS tubes), sounds much better than RME pre."]. Doesn't really contribute anything empirical. A more useful reply could have been "I use such and such, because i prefer the sound" - which nobody can argue with. Semantics matter ..

.. so .. it always seems to come down to whether or not things can be "objectively" measured - which in turn sparks a debate on what is considered objective .. and audio-professionals are pretty "hardline" on this. One reason (but certainly not the only one) for my own particular stance on the matter, could be the countless hours i've spent mixing something, only to open it up the next day and find it sounding completely different, despite the fact that nothing has changed. I simply do not trust ears as a repeatable (as in "verifiable") source of measurement ..  it's way too affected by mood, health, ect ..

I would consider this forum somewhat of a laboratory, so my advice is to engage it as such (case and point: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28397) - and if you find the (often rude) emphasis on the scientific method a "sh*tshow" as you put it, just voice your thoughts as "personal opinion" ..

Rune Borup @ FishCorp
Producer / Engineer / Composer
RayDAT > 2 x ADI-8 QS | AES+SPDIF > ADI-2 Pro
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

In terms of audio engineering I am but an amateur but I am a scientist by profession. For us, rigorous methodology is our core value: there may be other opinions but there are no alternative facts. I apply the same strictures to audio. I want my sound to be as close as possible to what was heard in the studio or concert hall. No more and no less. So I dislike anything that is not a straight wire, with or without gain. The logical implication is that I do not want anything in between a dac like the adi-2 and a power amp. Nothing can be as clean and neutral as a simple cable (and any cheap and cheerful cable will do).

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

@Basken this is what i am talking about - you're trying to convince me that my findings is not "empirical" enough, despite english is not my first language btw, so obviously im wrong, and I shouldn't share my experience here even somebody asked for.

@willem if 5 people who heard RME as preamp and compared it against Primaluna said that Primaluna sounds better with set of well-known songs and in familiar listening environment, which one is better then? Is that objective measurement of preamp is one specific system @Basken? How much more scientific can it even be?

And your statement "I do not want anything in between a dac like the adi-2 and a power amp" - rme IS preamp there - as soon you add gain (with volume control, passive or active) necessary for power amp input sensitivity, you have a preamp.

"I want my sound to be as close as possible to what was heard in the studio or concert hall" - and this is most important metric, in my opinion. If the system can reproduce an acoustic instrument like in live (unamplified!) environment, thats the ultimate goal, despite maybe one preamp measures slightly worse than other. Which one has better high fidelity reproduction, that one wins, simple as that.

~~ sound sommelier ~~
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Sure the ADI-2 serves as a pre amp (also in my system), the discussion was if an additional pre amp was useful for sound quality, and I said no. The other question is whether the Primaluna is a better one or the ADI-2. It is my contention (based on the combination of measured results and quite a body of research on human hearing acuity) that the ADI-2 is better than what humans can hear - for all practical purposes it is therefore perfect, and more more perfect than perfect is impossible. The same, by the way, applies to many other goods DACs. So what does this mean if you hear differences between it and the Primaluna? You have two possibilities: either the Primaluna is audibly less than perfect, or the differences are imaginary. There is no magic.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

willem wrote:

Sure the ADI-2 serves as a pre amp (also in my system), the discussion was if an additional pre amp was useful for sound quality, and I said no. The other question is whether the Primaluna is a better one or the ADI-2. It is my contention (based on the combination of measured results and quite a body of research on human hearing acuity) that the ADI-2 is better than what humans can hear - for all practical purposes it is therefore perfect, and more more perfect than perfect is impossible. The same, by the way, applies to many other goods DACs. So what does this mean if you hear differences between it and the Primaluna? You have two possibilities: either the Primaluna is audibly less than perfect, or the differences are imaginary. There is no magic.

Let me ask you this ("based on the combination of measured results"): how do you measure stereo imaging, sound stage, stage with, height, space between instruments, even upper bass (voice) volume if freq response is flat?

Did you just say that RME, or any pre/DAC device, is perfect ("for all practical purposes it is therefore perfect"), and there can not be better device?! If thats true, thats the funniest thing i heard in a long time!
Because RME can go 0-110khz that means its perfect, no need for actual listening or even matching with the rest of the system!

~~ sound sommelier ~~
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

hhrvoje wrote:

@Basken this is what i am talking about - you're trying to convince me that my findings is not "empirical" enough, despite english is not my first language btw, so obviously im wrong, and I shouldn't share my experience here even somebody asked for.

Hey - i'm danish, so english is not my first language either! smile

What i mean by "empirical", is that whatever you or i might claim - can be verified by others! If a piece of equipment makes a difference we can measure it somehow .. consistently!

hhrvoje wrote:

if 5 people who heard RME as preamp and compared it against Primaluna said that Primaluna sounds better with set of well-known songs and in familiar listening environment, which one is better then? Is that objective measurement of preamp is one specific system @Basken? How much more scientific can it even be?

I think your example is a (strong) "opinion" - but i cannot agree that it is "better" - just "different" (or perhaps "preferable") which is not the same!

"Better" in my understanding equals as close to the source as can possibly be; after all - this is the design-goal of the ADI-2 Pro.

If i had taken a photograph and made some prints of it - i would want the prints to be as close to the original as possible. But - how *you* would want to display that photograph - in daylight, spots, LEDs or whatever kind of lighting - is a matter of "personal preference". You may find it to look "better" under certain conditions .. but, that has nothing to do with the actual photograph.

I am not trolling or being sarcastic in any way! The majority of people here just work in the industry, where we color things in the recording or mix, and thus the output are meant for "clean reproduction" ..

Rune Borup @ FishCorp
Producer / Engineer / Composer
RayDAT > 2 x ADI-8 QS | AES+SPDIF > ADI-2 Pro
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

I totally agree with you, we all want most real and life-like reproduction, thats why its called "high fidelity". Other hifi brand manufactures have the same goal im sure, but in audio playback we can never have perfect system, no matter how good components are. DACs are pretty accurate, pre and power amps slightly less but still pretty good, but speakers and specially speaker-room interaction, thats completely another story.

I often have 2 audiophile friends visiting me and we do various a/b testings of equipment we own, so its not just my opinion or preference.
And specially this combination, RME pre vs. Primaluna pre, *in my system*, they can't even compare, Prima is clearly better in any way. Mids, like human voices, are so much more accurate (thanks to the tubes), highs are just nicer, more airy, bass is maybe tighter on RME but Prima adds some body to it and special color/timbar. RME is good pre, but there are many worse and many better products out here, and if you have system with good enough resolution and transparency, you will hear it immediately. And in some other systems, maybe RME pre is better than Prima, specially if you're not looking for realistic sound stage projection and natural tone/timbar!

~~ sound sommelier ~~

110 Reply by Jas0_0 (edited by Jas0_0 2019-07-31 07:45:46)

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

@hhrvoje, if you’re worried that this forum is a s***show, I would say your post above is quite a big stirring stick in a place where many people value measurements. 

I also use a separate pre with my RME (a Croft valve hybrid which probably measures badly if the review of a Croft in Stereophile is anything to go by) because, to me, it sounds better.  Though I’m fully open to the possibility that the difference between the Croft and the RME is some kind of distortion that I just happen to like.

There is a big distinction between objectively better and subjectively better, and experience suggests that not respecting that here leads to arguments.

(I also concede the problems with scientific objectivity - Popper, Kuhn, Kant, Wittgenstein etc all made very good points)

111 Reply by N00b (edited by N00b 2019-07-31 09:31:03)

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

hhrvoje wrote:

[...]
And your statement "I do not want anything in between a dac like the adi-2 and a power amp" - rme IS preamp there - as soon you add gain (with volume control, passive or active) necessary for power amp input sensitivity, you have a preamp.
[...]

A preamp -and especially a passive one- does not "add gain" most of the time (especially with modern sources); it is more of a variable attenuator wink

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

N00b's Website

  • Registered: 2020-02-28
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

I am missing some punch and dynamics from Focal JM Labs 946 Electra floor standing speakers.
I am using the RME Adi 2 pro as preamp for the Norh Le amp MB100 monoblocks which are connected to the speakers with speaker cables.
As source I am using a Shanling M2x which is connected with usb to the ADI dac.

Here is some info about the speakers:
https://www.hifi-regler.de/shop/focal/j … rz_alu.php
Technische Daten des JM Lab Electra 946 Standlautsprechers
Lautsprecherbestückung: 2 x 260 mm Sandwich "W" mit 40mm Schwingspule; 1 x 165 mm Sandwich "W" mit 32 mm Schwingspule; 25 mm tioxid beschichtete Invers-Hochtonkalotte, 20 mm Schwingspule, 2 x 56 mm Magnet
Frequenzgang: (+/-3 dB) 32 Hz - 23 kHz
Wirkungsgrad: (2,8V/1m) 93 dB
Nennimpedanz: (EN 60065) 8 Ohm
Impedanz: Mimimum 4,0 Ohm
Trennfrequenz: 200 Hz - 2.500 Hz
Maximale Belastbarkeit: 300 W
Empf. Verstärkerleistung: 40 - 250 W
Abmessungen: (H x L x B) 125,8 x 32,5 x 51,4 cm
Gewicht: 55 kg
Lautsprecherabdeckung: akustischer Bespannstoff, schwarz oder grau
Gehäuseprinzip: Bassreflex
Bassreflexöffnung: rund, vorne
Aufstellung Boden
Pressebericht in: Heimkino 3/2002


Here is some info about the monoblocks:
https://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/norhleamp_e.html
Le Amp is rated at a minimum of 100 watts into 8 or 4 ohm loads (based on IEC268.3 rules), and it supports power peaks of 160 watts into 8 ohms, or 240 watts into 4 ohms. This class A/B amp is rated at 0.010% total harmonic distortion (THD) at 72 watts continuous power into 8 ohms, or 0.014% THD at 105 watts into 4 ohms. It is available for 110-120 VAC 50/60Hz, or 220/240 VAC 50/60Hz.


Would I need better monoblocks for better dynamics and punch?

  • Registered: 2019-05-30
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

alexanderdemaet wrote:

Would I need better monoblocks for better dynamics and punch?

I have Electra 1028be and tested several poweramps/preamps combinations (Nord NC500, Pass, Accuphase, ...), but didn't change dynamics much, its just how Focal sounds, IMO
When I had different speakers, Tannoy XT8F with Rega amp, dynamics/punch was much stronger, but was too much of "in your face" thats fun at first but didn't suit the music style i prefer. Focal with the same Rega amp was much calmer, pleasant, less punch, but better tonality, details, microdynamics.

~~ sound sommelier ~~

114 Reply by exact

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

I guess I might aswell not make a new topic and ask this here; I just got a pair of Behringer Truth B3030A's that I hooked up to my ADI-2 DAC via XLR and my question is, does the RME affect the sound quality that I'm getting, since the speakers are active?

115 Reply by hhrvoje (edited by hhrvoje 2020-09-21 15:32:43)

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

exact wrote:

I guess I might aswell not make a new topic and ask this here; I just got a pair of Behringer Truth B3030A's that I hooked up to my ADI-2 DAC via XLR and my question is, does the RME affect the sound quality that I'm getting, since the speakers are active?

Every component in the chain, passive or active, affects the sound somewhat. You're using RME as a DAC it seems, so you're getting sonics of its DAC chip and DAC amplifier section, which is kinda clean, neutral, transparent.

~~ sound sommelier ~~

116 Reply by exact

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Okay this is how I thought it was aswell, wanted to make sure that I'm getting the benefit of the ADI-2 even with my speakers!

117 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2020-09-21 15:52:19)

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

The effect of room (level of optimization), listening position and monitor position / angle, will be much likely higher compared to the DAC chip being used. The ADI-2 Pro/DAC will be least of your "problems" and definitively not a weak part of the total setup. Up to what level it makes an audible difference to other products you would need to find out by yourself by blind tests in your room.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

118 Reply by exact

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

I'm aware of this, I'm currently setting my living room up for the speakers to sound good.

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

bejoro wrote:

I and almost all of my customers with an ADI-2 PRO/DAC do not use a pre-amp, always a direct connection to a power-amp or active speakers. Unless you need more than one analog input. And we all have setups of very or extremely high quality.

The RME's great digital volume control is perfect and there is absolute no coloration, perfectly neutral.

If you want a specific sound, a specific coloration you can use a pre-amp to achieve that. But no electronic and a simple cable connection is always better than a complex pre-amp circutry.

I need multiple analog inputs. Right now I connected the output of my preamp to the ADI-2 Pro FS R BEs analog input then I connected the ADI-2's output to my amp. Basically I'm using my preamp as an analog switcher and phono preamp. Do you think it would be better to connect the ADI-2 to the preamp and just use it as a DAC?

  • Registered: 2020-02-28
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Thanks for the info,
I could try out a Red Wine Audio Signature 30 (upgraded to 30.2) and see if it changes the sound a bit.
My room has not been isolated for better sound.


hhrvoje wrote:
alexanderdemaet wrote:

Would I need better monoblocks for better dynamics and punch?

I have Electra 1028be and tested several poweramps/preamps combinations (Nord NC500, Pass, Accuphase, ...), but didn't change dynamics much, its just how Focal sounds, IMO
When I had different speakers, Tannoy XT8F with Rega amp, dynamics/punch was much stronger, but was too much of "in your face" thats fun at first but didn't suit the music style i prefer. Focal with the same Rega amp was much calmer, pleasant, less punch, but better tonality, details, microdynamics.

  • Registered: 2020-02-28
  • Posts: 10

Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

alexanderdemaet wrote:

I am missing some punch and dynamics from Focal JM Labs 946 Electra floor standing speakers.
I am using the RME Adi 2 pro as preamp for the Norh Le amp MB100 monoblocks which are connected to the speakers with speaker cables.
As source I am using a Shanling M2x which is connected with usb to the ADI dac.

Here is some info about the speakers:
https://www.hifi-regler.de/shop/focal/j … rz_alu.php
Technische Daten des JM Lab Electra 946 Standlautsprechers
Lautsprecherbestückung: 2 x 260 mm Sandwich "W" mit 40mm Schwingspule; 1 x 165 mm Sandwich "W" mit 32 mm Schwingspule; 25 mm tioxid beschichtete Invers-Hochtonkalotte, 20 mm Schwingspule, 2 x 56 mm Magnet
Frequenzgang: (+/-3 dB) 32 Hz - 23 kHz
Wirkungsgrad: (2,8V/1m) 93 dB
Nennimpedanz: (EN 60065) 8 Ohm
Impedanz: Mimimum 4,0 Ohm
Trennfrequenz: 200 Hz - 2.500 Hz
Maximale Belastbarkeit: 300 W
Empf. Verstärkerleistung: 40 - 250 W
Abmessungen: (H x L x B) 125,8 x 32,5 x 51,4 cm
Gewicht: 55 kg
Lautsprecherabdeckung: akustischer Bespannstoff, schwarz oder grau
Gehäuseprinzip: Bassreflex
Bassreflexöffnung: rund, vorne
Aufstellung Boden
Pressebericht in: Heimkino 3/2002


Here is some info about the monoblocks:
https://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/norhleamp_e.html
Le Amp is rated at a minimum of 100 watts into 8 or 4 ohm loads (based on IEC268.3 rules), and it supports power peaks of 160 watts into 8 ohms, or 240 watts into 4 ohms. This class A/B amp is rated at 0.010% total harmonic distortion (THD) at 72 watts continuous power into 8 ohms, or 0.014% THD at 105 watts into 4 ohms. It is available for 110-120 VAC 50/60Hz, or 220/240 VAC 50/60Hz.


Would I need better monoblocks for better dynamics and punch?

Here is a 6moons review of the monoblocks. To be honest, I like the Focal sound!

122 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-09-23 11:52:44)

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Logan Nolag wrote:
bejoro wrote:

I and almost all of my customers with an ADI-2 PRO/DAC do not use a pre-amp, always a direct connection to a power-amp or active speakers. Unless you need more than one analog input. And we all have setups of very or extremely high quality.

The RME's great digital volume control is perfect and there is absolute no coloration, perfectly neutral.

If you want a specific sound, a specific coloration you can use a pre-amp to achieve that. But no electronic and a simple cable connection is always better than a complex pre-amp circutry.

I need multiple analog inputs. Right now I connected the output of my preamp to the ADI-2 Pro FS R BEs analog input then I connected the ADI-2's output to my amp. Basically I'm using my preamp as an analog switcher and phono preamp. Do you think it would be better to connect the ADI-2 to the preamp and just use it as a DAC?

Either way you're daisy-chaining, for the analog-, or the digital signal path.

Choose the setting that's better for the source you're mainly listening to:

• If you are mainly listening to digital through ADI-2, leave it as it is.
• If your true analog sources (like phono) are used the most reverse the setting.
•  If your "analog" sources are digital in reality, like a CD or Streaming Player, leave the basic setting like it is, but connect the digital source to the ADI-2.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2020-09-15
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

KaiS wrote:
Logan Nolag wrote:
bejoro wrote:

I and almost all of my customers with an ADI-2 PRO/DAC do not use a pre-amp, always a direct connection to a power-amp or active speakers. Unless you need more than one analog input. And we all have setups of very or extremely high quality.

The RME's great digital volume control is perfect and there is absolute no coloration, perfectly neutral.

If you want a specific sound, a specific coloration you can use a pre-amp to achieve that. But no electronic and a simple cable connection is always better than a complex pre-amp circutry.

I need multiple analog inputs. Right now I connected the output of my preamp to the ADI-2 Pro FS R BEs analog input then I connected the ADI-2's output to my amp. Basically I'm using my preamp as an analog switcher and phono preamp. Do you think it would be better to connect the ADI-2 to the preamp and just use it as a DAC?

Either way you're daisy-chaining, for the analog-, or the digital signal path.

Choose the setting that's better for the source you're mainly listening to:

• If you are mainly listening to digital through ADI-2, leave it as it is.
• If your true analog sources (like phono) are used the most reverse the setting.
•  If your "analog" sources are digital in reality, like a CD or Streaming Player, leave the basic setting like it is, but connect the digital source to the ADI-2.

Ok. That makes sense. My primary sources are 100% digital. I mostly use a PC, a MacBook, and the optical out from my TV. My analog sources are a Turntable, a vintage receiver which I use as a tuner, an aux cable and the left and right preamp outputs from my home theater receiver. Theoretically I could just connect all of the analog sources to the home theater receiver and cut the preamp out entirely but the phono stage in my preamp is way better than the one in my receiver. Also my preamp has a passthrough mode which bypasses the volume control whenever the receiver is turned on so theoretically I only ever have the receiver or the preamp connected at a time.

124 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-09-24 06:53:53)

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Logan Nolag wrote:
KaiS wrote:
Logan Nolag wrote:

I need multiple analog inputs. Right now I connected the output of my preamp to the ADI-2 Pro FS R BEs analog input then I connected the ADI-2's output to my amp. Basically I'm using my preamp as an analog switcher and phono preamp. Do you think it would be better to connect the ADI-2 to the preamp and just use it as a DAC?

Either way you're daisy-chaining, for the analog-, or the digital signal path.

Choose the setting that's better for the source you're mainly listening to:

• If you are mainly listening to digital through ADI-2, leave it as it is.
• If your true analog sources (like phono) are used the most reverse the setting.
•  If your "analog" sources are digital in reality, like a CD or Streaming Player, leave the basic setting like it is, but connect the digital source to the ADI-2.

... my preamp has a passthrough mode which bypasses the volume control whenever the receiver is turned on so theoretically I only ever have the receiver or the preamp connected at a time.

If there's a passthrough that bypasses all active electronics you could connect ADI-2 Pro to the preamp and use it as pure hardware switcher.

This would give the shortest signal path for all sources.

I can see if I find a schematic, what model is that preamp?

KaiS's Website

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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

KaiS wrote:
Logan Nolag wrote:
KaiS wrote:

Either way you're daisy-chaining, for the analog-, or the digital signal path.

Choose the setting that's better for the source you're mainly listening to:

• If you are mainly listening to digital through ADI-2, leave it as it is.
• If your true analog sources (like phono) are used the most reverse the setting.
•  If your "analog" sources are digital in reality, like a CD or Streaming Player, leave the basic setting like it is, but connect the digital source to the ADI-2.

... my preamp has a passthrough mode which bypasses the volume control whenever the receiver is turned on so theoretically I only ever have the receiver or the preamp connected at a time.

If there's a passthrough that bypasses all active electronics you could connect ADI-2 Pro to the preamp and use it as pure hardware switcher.

This would give the shortest signal path for all sources.

I can see if I find a schematic, what model is that preamp?

The preamp is a McIntosh C47. It does have a fixed output that is unaffected by volume or tone controls but it is an unbalanced RCA output. The preamp has a total of 5 outputs: 2 variable unbalanced 2 variable balanced and 1 fixed unbalanced.

126 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-09-24 15:38:39)

  • KaiS
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  • Registered: 2020-02-05
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Logan Nolag wrote:
KaiS wrote:
Logan Nolag wrote:

... my preamp has a passthrough mode which bypasses the volume control whenever the receiver is turned on so theoretically I only ever have the receiver or the preamp connected at a time.

If there's a passthrough that bypasses all active electronics you could connect ADI-2 Pro to the preamp and use it as pure hardware switcher.

This would give the shortest signal path for all sources.

I can see if I find a schematic, what model is that preamp?

The preamp is a McIntosh C47. It does have a fixed output that is unaffected by volume or tone controls but it is an unbalanced RCA output. The preamp has a total of 5 outputs: 2 variable unbalanced 2 variable balanced and 1 fixed unbalanced.

The McIntosh C47 can passthrough balanced signals, and you can select the passthrough input from all, except Phono and Digital.
Passes NOT to the fixed unbalanced RCA output, but to the main XLRs.

Read C47's manual page 9/22,23 and page 17 for details.


To activate passthrough you might, or might not need to connect the passthrough control cable and to switch on the AV-receiver. Just try.


According to this video McIntosh uses (glass encapsuled) Reed Relays for switching, this would be perfectly transparent to audio.
I wouldn't hesitate to use the passthrough for the ADI-2 Pro's signal.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kamJ5k20uKM

Great piece of stuff, the C47, BTW.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2019-10-04
  • Posts: 8

Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

I use the ADI-2 Dac as a Dac into my Audio By Van Alstine Transcendence 10 SLR preamplifier. I've run the Dac directly into my power amp, and don't feel I'm missing anything running it through my preamp. Your mileage may vary.

  • Registered: 2020-09-15
  • Posts: 20

Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

KaiS wrote:
Logan Nolag wrote:
KaiS wrote:

If there's a passthrough that bypasses all active electronics you could connect ADI-2 Pro to the preamp and use it as pure hardware switcher.

This would give the shortest signal path for all sources.

I can see if I find a schematic, what model is that preamp?

The preamp is a McIntosh C47. It does have a fixed output that is unaffected by volume or tone controls but it is an unbalanced RCA output. The preamp has a total of 5 outputs: 2 variable unbalanced 2 variable balanced and 1 fixed unbalanced.

The McIntosh C47 can passthrough balanced signals, and you can select the passthrough input from all, except Phono and Digital.
Passes NOT to the fixed unbalanced RCA output, but to the main XLRs.

Read C47's manual page 9/22,23 and page 17 for details.


To activate passthrough you might, or might not need to connect the passthrough control cable and to switch on the AV-receiver. Just try.


According to this video McIntosh uses (glass encapsuled) Reed Relays for switching, this would be perfectly transparent to audio.
I wouldn't hesitate to use the passthrough for the ADI-2 Pro's signal.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kamJ5k20uKM

Great piece of stuff, the C47, BTW.

Yeah the C47 is pretty awesome. The only parts of it that aren't absolutely top notch are the DAC and the headphone amp which both feel like a bit of an afterthought. The DAC sounds great but it has a very annoying feature where it automutes whenever the USB signal goes silent then instead of coming back on immediately it ramps back up over around a half a second which means that sometimes the first bit of a song or video is cut off. They have fixed this with more recent preamps like the C49 but since the headphone amp also isn't the best I decided to get a dedicated DAC/Headphone amp to pair with my C47 or possibly replace it at some point.

  • From: Switzerland, Zürich
  • Registered: 2013-02-20
  • Posts: 193

Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Hi

I use not ADI-2-Pro but RME UFX, UFX II in a Hifi system as preamplifier, crossover (4-way stereo), surround premap, DAC and ADC (for Phono and Tape input and Mic to measure).

I just dumped all the premamps except RIAA-phono as the RME UFX and UFX II can do all and even much more than a preamp.

I see no need for additional preamplifier to complicate the setup and introduce more hardware in the signal-path.

Sonically, and this is my opinion, the UFX and UFX II are way better than I can hear.
The specs and measurements show the facts.
ADI-2 Pro is even better than UFX and UFX II (specs, measurements). And yes I did ABX Tests (with headphones, STAX SR009 and Sennheiser HD800).

Peter

  • Registered: 2020-02-28
  • Posts: 10

Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

alexanderdemaet wrote:
alexanderdemaet wrote:

I am missing some punch and dynamics from Focal JM Labs 946 Electra floor standing speakers.
Here is some info about the speakers:
https://www.hifi-regler.de/shop/focal/j … rz_alu.php
Technische Daten des JM Lab Electra 946 Standlautsprechers
Lautsprecherbestückung: 2 x 260 mm Sandwich "W" mit 40mm Schwingspule; 1 x 165 mm Sandwich "W" mit 32 mm Schwingspule; 25 mm tioxid beschichtete Invers-Hochtonkalotte, 20 mm Schwingspule, 2 x 56 mm Magnet
Frequenzgang: (+/-3 dB) 32 Hz - 23 kHz
Wirkungsgrad: (2,8V/1m) 93 dB
Nennimpedanz: (EN 60065) 8 Ohm
Impedanz: Mimimum 4,0 Ohm
Trennfrequenz: 200 Hz - 2.500 Hz
Maximale Belastbarkeit: 300 W
Empf. Verstärkerleistung: 40 - 250 W
Abmessungen: (H x L x B) 125,8 x 32,5 x 51,4 cm
Gewicht: 55 kg
Lautsprecherabdeckung: akustischer Bespannstoff, schwarz oder grau
Gehäuseprinzip: Bassreflex
Bassreflexöffnung: rund, vorne
Aufstellung Boden
Pressebericht in: Heimkino 3/2002

Would I need better monoblocks for better dynamics and punch?

Here is a 6moons review of the monoblocks. To be honest, I like the Focal sound!

I am trying to integrate a (ACI Titan XL) subwoofer.
I received 65Hz high pass filters with the sub.
I wonder if 85 Hz filters would be better?
Some info about high pass filters (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?t … 84.new#new)

Frequency Response of the speakers : 32Hz to 23kHz +/- 3dB, -6dB @ 27HZ – JM Lab is known to understate their specs…

131 Reply by KaiS

  • KaiS
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  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
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Re: [ADI-2 Dac] HiFi : you use a preamp or not ?

Why don't you just try?
As far as I can see here, x-over is variable:
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details … s/1662851/

Anyway, without measuring equipment perfect integration of a sub is almost impossible.
X-over is only one variable, speaker placement is at least equally important.


This valid question comes up so often, maybe we should have a sticky.


A Real Time Analyser is the best tool to optimize your setup:

The iPhone App "Audio Tools", FFT part, by Andrew Smith / Studio Six Digital is a self contained App that doesn't need any additional hardware for precise measurements:
https://studiosixdigital.com
There's a 7 day try out period available.

If you want to use it I can guide you through the process.

KaiS's Website