1 (edited by ed 2020-09-21 21:03:35)

Topic: stuttering with mouse move

Just purchased the ADI-2-FS Pro.  Hooked up to PC/Win10 via USB. PC is a multi-core i9 with plenty of memory.  Nothing loaded down on it.   Tried with both no drivers and with latest 07923 drivers.  Whenever I move the mouse, I get dropouts/stuttering.    I opened the MADi USB and I see USB errors increment as I move the mouse around the screen.  tried different USB ports, tried moving it to USB3 ports (with nothing else on).  Doesnt change the effect at all.  Increased the buffers, still there.  i've searched back and seen that some people have some erratic issues here and there, but mine is constant and non-stop.  Music playback is fine if you never move the mouse.  if you move the mouse from one side to the other - it will crackle multilple times.  I've done a factory reset on the RME  ADI-2 device.  Ive disabled the realtek audio service and manager which I've seen some recommendations for.
still no improvement.  Looking for any suggestions or recommendations, but its unuseable with this constant crackling/drop out.  USB cable appears fine as I've replaced with antother USB to USB-B cable and same results. Thank you for any insight as to what might be causing this.

2

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Is that one of those crappy X99 motherboards?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

3

Re: stuttering with mouse move

No, its a Dell 5820 professional workstation. . .

4 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-21 22:03:44)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Did you install the chipset (mainboard) and the graphic card's drivers?
Is it worse if you drag around windows?
Did you try another mouse?

Re: stuttering with mouse move

MC wrote:

Is that one of those crappy X99 motherboards?

Funny you said this. I have 2 X99 computers and they have always had USB problems. I originally connected my ADI-2 PRO FS R BE on one of them and I had these EXACT same symptoms. I was able to alleviate it somewhat by disabling XHCI entirely but it still has problems. X99 is a terrible chipset that I suffered with for many years. The ADI-2 is literally the reason I finally decided to build a new computer.

Bought an Asus X570 board and it works perfectly.

6 (edited by ed 2020-09-22 00:39:23)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

I’ve tried wired and wireless mice. Both do the same thing. The latest nvidia drivers have been installed as well as the latest motherboard bios.  It stutters every time you move the mouse and  hover over things. It stutters if you open applications or scrolling over to the bar to open applications. It stutters whenever you hover the mouse.  It’s a monster machine with 64gb or ddr4 memory and top of the line i9 cpu. Not built by me but a dell workstation.

I’ll play wjth xhci things next I guess.  I have disabled Realtek almost completely with no effect.

7

Re: stuttering with mouse move

This is a case for Dell support. Such a massive issue has to be supported and fixed by them. Maybe they already have that in their data base...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

8 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-22 06:42:49)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

ed wrote:

...installed as well as the latest motherboard bios.  ...

Not only the Bios, but the chipset drivers need to be installed.
Usually supplied by the manufacturer of the mainoard.
Look into Dell's download section.

Windows generic drivers are often outdated or have bad performance.

9

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Yeah but they will say it’s the external rme dac. Because playing music through the Realtek dac output works fine without stuttering or performance issues. Not sure how I would go about this with them. And support for windows 10 to external units would be pretty futile as well.

10 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-22 14:13:23)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

My best guess is, an outdated, buggy USB chipset drivers causing this, see my post above.

Re: stuttering with mouse move

For testing: Switch to the "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter" via Device-Manager -> Update driver -> Browse my computer -> Let me pick from list

Alternatively/Additionally: Go to "Additional mouse options" and switch *on* mouse-trails.

12

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Somehow posted, but it didnt show up.   I got this resolved.  no idea why it worked, but the suggestion to turn mouse trails on got rid of the problem.   Again - have no idea why, but that step solved my problem.

Re: stuttering with mouse move

ed wrote:

Somehow posted, but it didnt show up.   I got this resolved.  no idea why it worked, but the suggestion to turn mouse trails on got rid of the problem.   Again - have no idea why, but that step solved my problem.

Interesting this fixed the problem. My guess is that by turning this on another part of the driver code logic gets executed (which is less buggy than the code that is executed when that option is off).

14 (edited by Timur Born 2020-09-22 18:02:05)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Long story short: You are experiencing a X99 + NVidia = USB drops bug that is reproducible on other X99 boards, too. Using a AMD GPU (driver) is another "workaround" to get rid of it, at least last time I tried (two years ago).

The reason why mouse-trails helped is that this turns off NVidia GPU hardware acceleration of the mouse-pointer drawing. Since you now are haunted by a mouse-trail you need to do the following to keep GPU acceleration disabled with no mouse-trail showing.

Open Regedit and navigate to the following registry key:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse

Change the value of "MouseTrails" to -1

The side-effect of disabling hardware acceleration is that the mouse-pointer will now follow any software color shift originating from software like f.lux or Windows' own "Night Light" setting. This means that the mouse-pointer will also get that yellowish cast instead of staying blue/cold white. One could call this an advantage.

The drawback can be software like Teamviewer messing up its mouse-pointer drawing, maybe some games can also be affected.

With a normal mainboard I would also suggest to change the "XHCI hand-off" setting in BIOS/UEFI, but I suspect that your Dell BIOS does not expose that setting.

15

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Thank you for the explanation.  makes some sense.    the mouse trails dont bother me per se, as you can set them way down. 

Interesting.  I looked this up - it looks like this dell machine is x299 chipset.  Which i imagine is a future version of the x99 chipset.   You would figure the newer chipset would fix this issue.  Ues., running nvidia 2080 on this unit.  So does that mean a high end AMD will not have this issue ?

16 (edited by Timur Born 2020-09-22 20:47:21)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

I only encountered the issue using the combination of x99 + NVidia drivers. Testing AMD drivers in comparison did not cause the problem. But that was two years ago, so things may change. My guess is that it is more of a BIOS issue than hardware one, but we cannot be certain.

When you apply the registry change I posted (-1 trails) you will get rid of all mouse-trails while still staying in software mouse-pointer drawing mode.

XHCI hand-off switching in BIOS may also be needed for some combinations of software, but your Dell BIOS might not even expose that setting.

17

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Yeah this unit is their top of the line professional workstation line to handle content creators. So I’m surprised. But if it’s been something that has been in the past then not surprised it hasn’t been fixed either.   I wonder if it’s more an nvidia issue or an intel chipset issue.   The dell bios on these machines are pretty extensive. Wouldn’t be surprised if I did have access to that setting. Will check that out when I get a chance as well.  But I’m glad that the mouse cursor eliminated that issue - well probably until they do some sort of update to break it again.

18 (edited by Timur Born 2020-09-22 22:23:56)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Well, if AMD can do mouse-pointer GPU acceleration without breaking USB performance then at least it hints at NVidia doing something "different". wink

This isn't even a DPC Latency kind of issue, which makes it even odder.

19

Re: stuttering with mouse move

ed wrote:

No, its a Dell 5820 professional workstation. . .

So it's a crappy X299 board. Good to know.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

20 (edited by rawac 2020-09-23 14:07:33)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Using several Dells by myself, i recommend to install >Dell Command | Update< from Dell. Had some trouble with my XPS13 sometimes and running this program helped. It checks the system and replaces old or damaged drivers and other software stuff.

Ralf
(ADI-2 Pro FS with ThinkPad Yoga L13, Dynaudio Focus 600 XD or Focal Clear — and a lot of Jazz)

21

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Here is a question - why do we assume it’s a crappy mb ?  Whether x99 or x299 ? If it works fine with an amd video card - then the mb is fine. It’s the video driver manufacture - and it seems to be a x99/x299 issue with nvidia video cards/drivers. So why wouldn’t this be an nvidia problem and not the mb mfg problem ?

Re: stuttering with mouse move

ed wrote:

Here is a question - why do we assume it’s a crappy mb ?  Whether x99 or x299 ? If it works fine with an amd video card - then the mb is fine. It’s the video driver manufacture - and it seems to be a x99/x299 issue with nvidia video cards/drivers. So why wouldn’t this be an nvidia problem and not the mb mfg problem ?

I think part of it might be that X99 was one of the first USB 3.0 chipsets and there was something funky about the way it was implemented. I have 2 X99 boards and both of them have very unreliable USB ports. Keyboards and mice will sometimes randomly disconnect, external HDDs will not stay connected and I've had problems with many USB dacs from many different brands. The board's USB 2.0 ports are much more reliable than the 3.0 ports but they are also not super stable. It is possible that it has something to do with the Nvidia drivers since both of my x99 computers have Nvidia cards but I just upgraded to an AMD X570 board with an Nvidia 2080ti and I haven't had a single USB issue since.

23 (edited by Timur Born 2020-09-24 07:38:43)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

NVidia drivers are surely part of the problem, but the corresponding USB dropouts only seem to (clearly) happen in combination with X99. So it is more of a mainboard (or BIOS/UEFI) thing than a NVidia thing, since the latter works well on other chipsets. You could say: X99 fails 50% (Nvidia vs. AMD), but Nvidia only seems to fail on X99 (not being DPC latency related).

24 (edited by tbop 2021-11-20 16:02:10)

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Oh man.

Got the exact same issue with my FF800 (Firewire + TI chipset of course). Just recently upgraded from a 2012 NVidia GPU to a new one (GT710)[1].
And since then I started encountering this issue... for the first time in 8 years with my wonderful PC. so I assume it's in fact related.
I broadly updated everything (using a Driver Update app) but the problem persists... Pretty annoying that NVidia have the worst drivers on earth, unbelievable. I work for Steinberg and we've got plenty of issues with their unstable drivers.

I'm gonna try to turn on the mouse trail and then edit the registry if this drives me mad. Will report soon about my own findings.

[1] Btw, besides being unstable (cough cough) this GPU is very practical, allowing me to connect 4 HDMI ports simultaneously

A dood from Steinberg

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Dear all,

I just got a ADI-2/4 PRO SE and discovered I have the same issues (also a Intel X99 chipset). The mouse pointer trick indeed solves the mouse stuttering, but it doesn't entirely solve the problem as the command Alt + Tab also causes audio dropouts. Even more interestingly, my old Fireface UCX doesn't have any of these problems, not a single stutter or dropout - so it is possible with the right drivers. My PC was setup by XI-Machines, whom I've also emailed about this issue, and also has a Geforce graphics card. Does anyone have an update on this issue perhaps, especially the Alt + Tab problem?

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Hi Everyone,

I've had X299 mainboard (Asus WS X299 Pro) for about 5 years, starting with i9-7940 cpu, now with i9-10980xe. Always has been on Nvidia GPU (1080Ti then 4080) and I also have one more PCIe slot occupied by 10 Gig ethernet and there are 2 M.2 SSDs.

I am also happy ADI-2 Pro SE owner since early/mid 2019, I regularly update firmware and have ZERO issues. So I'm not so sure this is a chipset issue. X299 has a decent USB3 support and I cannot say anything negative about this setup, at least based on my experience with lots of devices hangin on USB so far. I have 2 disk enclosures, logitech camera, ADI-2 Pro, external card reader, mouse, kb and monitor. This runs under Windows 10.

27

Re: stuttering with mouse move

There are always exceptions to the rule...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: stuttering with mouse move

I 'fixed' the Alt + Tab problem - I noticed it only happened when switching between Windows (10) interface tabs (like Settings or Apps and Features) and everything else, so I figured it was (once again) a switch between non-GPU and GPU accelerated elements. Turning off the Hardware accelerated GPU scheduling solved it, although now I'm worried and suspicious about any piece of software that has such a function.

Still, my Fireface UCX, with similar drivers and the TotalMix works perfectly no matter what - would it be possible to use or get similar drivers for the ADI-2/4?

Re: stuttering with mouse move

Dear all,

I am happy to announce that I fixed this issue entirely for myself - and I believe it is not the Intel C610 series/X99 chipset (at least in isolation) that is the problem. I believe it is the graphics card, or the interaction between the chipset and the graphics card that causes these issues. I made a little list for myself (the one in bold is the one I believe specifically solved this issue, and I'm not sure if anything else is really necessary to be honest):


1. Turn off ‘Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power’ for: USB Root Hub (USB 3.0) / Generic USB Hub (no.2) / Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub
2. Disable networks that are not in use
3. NVIDIA: set Low Latency Mode to ‘Ultra’, and Power Management Mode to ‘Maximum Performance’
4. Processor idle demote = 40% / Processor idle promote = 60% (i.e., the default settings)
5. Clean and dust your computer!
6. Run LatencyMon to double check everything


If you don't have a NVIDIA card, there might still be similar latency and power management options available.

No more stuttering/crackling/dropouts - your mouse is free from pointer trails - everything works exactly as it should!

Merry Christmas! :-)