1 Topic by martin_d (edited by martin_d 2020-09-29 22:13:53)

  • Registered: 2020-09-29
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Topic: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

After working for years at 96khz, I decided recently to switch to 44.1khz going forward, to be able to use all ADAT channels. At 96khz my system was running fine for years, I did not change anything but set the sample rate to 44.1khz.

When in 44.1khz mode, as soon as I open Ableton Live, there will be clicks across all channels and the whole computer will freeze completely after minutes. When restarting and switching back to 96khz everything is completey fine again.

I'm running Win 10 and have connected my UFX+ via TB/Startech adapter. Changing the buffer does not make any difference. LatencyMon shows no problems.

Any hint what the problem might be is highly appreciated.


Edit: Also without opening any DAW, when using (ie YouTube or iTunes) the UFX+ at 44.1khz,  pops will appear and the whole computer will freeze after 5-10 minutes. Again, at 96khz everything works perfectly fine!

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

No one has any hint for that problem? RME support?

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

Hello!

Could you try deselecting all WDM devices, and then change sample rate?

Also, what is your buffer setting @96K ? If it's, let's say 64@96K, it will drop to 32 when you switch to 44.1K, so you might need to increase it!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
  • Registered: 2020-09-29
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

Thanks MetalHeadKeys! I tried deselecting all WDM devices already; unfortunately the system will crash nevertheless when opening Alebton live after 5-10 minutes.

I also tried all variations of buffer sizes from the lowest up to 2048; unfortunately, no change,

Thanks for your hints nevertheless!

  • ramses
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

Please always include the information WHAT version of Win10 you are talking about. 1909, 2004 ?  This information is important for a) comparison with other users, b) for RME support and c) for people reading this thread at a later time.

This product exists since over 5y now and got around 11 (major) OS updates.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

6 Reply by MetalHeadKeys (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2020-09-30 15:44:36)

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

You 're welcome, Martin!!

Hmm, maybe a setting in Ableton, then?
Maybe, Ableton keeps the I/O configuration of the 96K setting..

After changing sample rate, can you open Ableton, without loading any project, and check the "Audio device" I/O configuration(where you set the I/O to be used by Ableton) ?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
  • Registered: 2020-09-29
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

Thanks for the hint ramses; sorry I wasn't aware of te importance of that. It is Win 10 version 2004.

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

You 're welcome, Martin!!

Hmm, maybe a setting in Ableton, then?
Maybe, Ableton keeps the I/O configuration of the 96K setting..

After changing sample rate, can you open Ableton, without loading any project, and check the "Audio device" I/O configuration(where you set the I/O to be used by Ableton) ?

I can open Ableton, the sample rate there is also set to 44.1khz.

I also doubt that it is related to Ableton, as the exact same thing happens when I playback audio from ie youtube. I tried this both by using a wdm device and by usgin the computers audio card through the spdif out of the computer and the spdif in on the UFX+ - as soon as the UFX+ is involved in playback at 44.1khz, first some occasional pops will appear and it takes 5-10 minutes until the computer will completely freeze.

9 Reply by MetalHeadKeys (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2020-09-30 16:03:01)

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

A Windows update bug, then?

Can you have a look at this thread?

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=31553

Also, one last suggestion to try,

Do you still get the same behaviour if you change the sample rate, then restart with the new sample rate and then, perform your tests?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
  • ramses
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

martin_d wrote:

Thanks for the hint ramses; sorry I wasn't aware of te importance of that. It is Win 10 version 2004.

TBH, its not your fault, its Microsoft .. it was a bad idea not to bump the version number in the products name anymore.
We are all used to names like "Windows 7", "Windows 7 SP1", "Windows 8", "Windows 8.1", but not Windows 10 and then a hidden 4 digit number which is not so easy to remember and not easily visible...

BTW 2004 had some issues .. in another thread I read MCs comment, that meanwhile most nasty bugs should be ironed out,
BUT ... if you have a 2nd disk and if you have a proper backup solution, then I would restore a backup of Win10 1909 and cross check, whether the issues has been introduced by 2004 or not.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2020-09-29
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

A Windows update bug, then?

Can you have a look at this thread?

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=31553

Also, one last suggestion to try,

Do you still get the same behaviour if you change the sample rate, then restart with the new sample rate and then, perform your tests?

It might be an update bug, I am not sure as I ran the UFX+ always only at 96khz before. The thread you mention really goes in the same direction, also the resulting problems seem not to be as severe as in my case. However, even if it is an update bug, it is impossible just to go back to an older version, as Windows will always do the update again.

I tried first changing the sample rate and then rebooting as you suggested, unfortunately it didn't change anything.

Thanks again for your help!

12 Reply by martin_d (edited by martin_d 2020-09-30 19:46:19)

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

ramses wrote:
martin_d wrote:

Thanks for the hint ramses; sorry I wasn't aware of te importance of that. It is Win 10 version 2004.

TBH, its not your fault, its Microsoft .. it was a bad idea not to bump the version number in the products name anymore.
We are all used to names like "Windows 7", "Windows 7 SP1", "Windows 8", "Windows 8.1", but not Windows 10 and then a hidden 4 digit number which is not so easy to remember and not easily visible...

BTW 2004 had some issues .. in another thread I read MCs comment, that meanwhile most nasty bugs should be ironed out,
BUT ... if you have a 2nd disk and if you have a proper backup solution, then I would restore a backup of Win10 1909 and cross check, whether the issues has been introduced by 2004 or not.

I do have backups, however I am not sure if they date back to v1909. Additionally, also if I could figure out it was introduced by 2004, I am afraid that would not be a permanent solution, as Windows will always do the backup again.

  • ramses
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

I make disk images ("Gold Images") as kind of snapshot of well running Win10 releases.
If you have Win10 Pro you can then delay upgrades.
If you organize your OS / data properly, then you can easily restore the system disk and user data on another disk / partition can stay untouched and backups can run further.
Roughly:
C: OS / programs / sample libs / user profiles (only the profile related stuff)
D: user data (Own Data / Images / Music / ...)
In fact its much more worked out here giving real flexibility.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

14 Reply by MC

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

You use which driver version? And which firmware version? Note that 'latest' is not a vaild answer.

If you updated to the current state and still have the problem you need to check the UFX+ on a different computer, to verify that the unit is not defective. If not then your computer (which you also didn't disclose) seems to be the culprit. BIOS updates plus TB firmware plus TB driver updates might be in order then.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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15 Reply by martin_d (edited by martin_d 2020-10-01 13:50:39)

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

Thanks fo your suggestions, MC. I use firmware TB 105, DSP 44, USB 51 and TB driver version 1.16, I also tested USB and used driver version 0.9723.

My computer is a 3XS System laptop from Scan computers (i7-6700), built and optimized for audio performance.

I checked UFX+ on a different computer both with USB and TB, it worked fine. I also tested the UFX+ on my computer via USB, it also worked fine.

I did BIOS plus TB updates, the 44.1khz problem via TB is still there. I am not sure how the computer‘s TB could be defective, as it works fine at 96khz. I do not have another TB audio interface to test the TB of the computer.

I could connect the UFX+ to USB 3, however I wanted to avoid that as an UAD Octo and an external HDD is already connected to that controller. Additionally I really would like to understand why the UFX+ is not working at 44.1khz via TB.

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

What happens if you check the "Limit ASIO to 32 channels" option, in the RME settings?(It's on the "About" Tab)
Can you, then, set the sample rate to 44.1K using thunderbolt?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

17 Reply by martin_d (edited by martin_d 2020-10-01 23:01:10)

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

What happens if you check the "Limit ASIO to 32 channels" option, in the RME settings?(It's on the "About" Tab)
Can you, then, set the sample rate to 44.1K using thunderbolt?

Thanks MetalHeadKeys; I tried as you suggested, but when I activate this option, Ableton Live will not work properly anymore at all. I can start Live, load a project, but not start playback at all. Also, in the input/output configuration dialog of Live, all channels are shown as before (ie 94 ins and 94 outs), not only 32 (as I assumed should be the case with that option activated).

EDIT: After rebooting the PC and the UFX one more time, I could start Live and playback a project. However, nothing changed - pops and crash after ca. 5 minutes.

Unfortunately, activating the "Limit to 32 ASIO channels" option created another problem: while the mode seems not to be working with TB connection (TotalMix shows all Software Playback channels and so does Live), when I change to USB connection it does work (only Software Channels 1-30 are visible both in TotalMix and in Live) - and cannot be turned off anymore! I tried re-and again de-activating the "limit asio channels"-option both with TB and USB connection, I de- and re-installed all RME software - no change, via USB there are only channles 1-30 available now for Software Playback in TotalmIx and also in Live.

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

Hello, Martin!

If the UFX+ is set to "Auto" Mode, can you set it manually to "Thunderbolt" from the front panel?

Here's the quote from the manual:

The factory setting for the Interface Mode, Auto, makes sure that any connected   computer   connection   is   recognized   automatically. Thunderbolt,  USB  3,  USB  2  and  Class  Compliant  will  usually  workwithout  any  further  user  interaction.  In  case  of  problems  the  current interface mode can be set manually to a fixed one. This is done under SETUP/REV, Options, Hardware/Diagnosis, Interface Mode.

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

I set the UFX+ manually to Thunderbolt; unfortunately that didn't change the situation, computer still crashes completely after some mintes when at 44.1 khz.

After that I also tried setting the UFX+ manually to USB3, and at least that brought back all the channels that were missing since activating the Asio-Channel-Limit in TB mode! Thanks, MetalHeadKeys!

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

You 're welcome, Martin!

I read the manual for the UAD Octo, as well, to see if there was a sample rate setting in its menu, but I didn't find anything relevant..
Did you try changing sample rate with the Octo, disconnected?

I think that your situation is a sample rate mismatch, somewhere, but I can't figure out where!
Does it, also, happen at 48K?

Or it could, also, be that the UAD software installs the Thunderbolt driver for the Octo(unless they provide a different driver for the thunderbolt version), as well, and there's a driver conflict?

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

Win10 20H2 x64
RME FF800
TI firewire

ASIO Driver Ver: 3.125 Date 25/02/19
HW REV 2.77

I am having the same issue. I can share memdump. It's odd. I have had BSODs working in 96k when switching apps and when releasing the driver in both Reaper and Nuendo. Even when closing Reaper and opening Nuendo I had BSOD's. Even when the machine would sit parked for some time in 96000 mode the driver would crash, turning off sleep seemed to improve crashing while the system was parked. I hope this helps.

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Re: UFX+ runs perfectly at 96khz, switching to 44.1khz will crash computer

Just tried in Cubase 10.5.20 with an empty project, where I recorded 1 audio track for a few seconds.
Changed sample rate from 44.1 to 96 to 192 back to 48 and 44.1.
No crash.
Win10 Pro 20H2
UFX+, USB3, MADIface driver version 0.9734

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14