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RME User Forum → FireWire & USB series → Fireface 400-800 and Apple Silicon
Makes total sense to port USB drivers over to Apple Silicon macs, and I get that firewire is dead, but the Fireface 800 here is solid as a rock. I'm hoping beyond rational hope that RME ports the FF400/800 driver over.
Absolutely no hard feelings if you can't, or consider it time to stop developing it, but I would for sure spend even more time talking about how fantastic RME is if you did. 
Apple Silicon machines do not have FireWire nor drivers for it. And most probably it will stay like that. So there can not be any FW driver from our side.
Apple Silicon machines do not have FireWire nor drivers for it. And most probably it will stay like that. So there can not be any FW driver from our side.
Thanks for the reply. I run the driver on an Intel MBP without firewire now, I've got a thunderbolt hub that has a firewire port on it, but it makes sense that OSX and the hardware itself are going to be the problem on AS machines.
Can't be too upset about it considering it's been about 15 years I've owned the FF800, it is too bad there isn't a way to replace the FW with USB3 etc. without just buying a new card though.
Quick additional question. I don't see any issue with using the FF800 as additional line and Mic inputs etc. for the Babyface, which will work on Silicon macs. Is there any reason not to buy a Babyface Pro and use the FF800 in stand alone as a studio "dock" for my audio audio hardware etc.? Seems like this would be perfect for me if the FF800 in stand alone can act as an ADAT slave.
This works fine. You only need to configure the FF800 once with Total Mix to work as an ADAT Extension and 'store the current state into device'. Some settings like phantom power might not be switchable in standalone mode though.
This works fine. You only need to configure the FF800 once with Total Mix to work as an ADAT Extension and 'store the current state into device'. Some settings like phantom power might not be switchable in standalone mode though.
yeah that's what I thought reading the manual, I'm curious if leaving it hooked up to the old mac pro here would screw up stand alone operation? I'm guessing it would, it would be easy enough to set the mic for phantom power then unplug the FF800 though. My set up is mostly hardware synths and line in, with some pres being use without phantom power so it should be fine.
hi everyone, I am considering buying new MAC Hardware. As Apple brought up the Macbook Pro with ARM M1 chip yesterday, could I use my FF400 with Firewire/Thunderbolt-connection on this machine?
Nobody knows exctly - the machine we got as developers did not have TB at all. And note that there is no FW driver at this time that could make it work. So the current answer is a clear no.
Thank you. Just to know- when I use the FF400 via Firewire and Thunderbolt Adapter, the computer still needs a FW driver?
Thank you. Just to know- when I use the FF400 via Firewire and Thunderbolt Adapter, the computer still needs a FW driver?
Yes. If you use Windows10, the current preference is to use the "Legacy" driver that came out with Win8. With the MacOS, it would have to be incorporated into the OS version, and I am able to use my FF800 on my Mac with OS 10.14.6 Mojave, although that is on a 2012 Mac Mini which has a Firewire port built in. I have no experience with the TB2 to Firewire adapter, but others in this forum have reported success with it, even with the TB2 to TB3 adapter in the chain.
There's been no announcement, but I believe it's doubtful that MacOS 11 and onward will include Firewire drivers.
Apple still is making Intel based machines for the foreseeable future, so Boot Camp is still an option. It is unclear whether they plan to make a comparable multi-OS option for the new ARM based machines.
It's looking very much like an upgrade to these new machines will require upgrades/replacements to all peripherals, including audio interfaces, which is more of an expense than I can consider.
Bassoonist wrote:Thank you. Just to know- when I use the FF400 via Firewire and Thunderbolt Adapter, the computer still needs a FW driver?
Yes. If you use Windows10, the current preference is to use the "Legacy" driver that came out with Win8. With the MacOS, it would have to be incorporated into the OS version, and I am able to use my FF800 on my Mac with OS 10.14.6 Mojave, although that is on a 2012 Mac Mini which has a Firewire port built in. I have no experience with the TB2 to Firewire adapter, but others in this forum have reported success with it, even with the TB2 to TB3 adapter in the chain.
I run the fireface 800 at times through an OWC hub with FW800 hooked up to a 2012 MacBook pro. Works just fine, no issues at all.
I'm going to be curious as to how the friendly hacker community responds to this? For about a year I used a third party hack for NVME support in Sierra before High sierra introduced a native driver.
Going forward personally I always planned on getting a Babyface Pro or equivalent for road use, so if I can really use the Fireface with no issues as an ADAT dock for all of my studio gear, it's pretty ideal really. I have a copy of VEP for legacy VSTs etc, on an old Mac pro here. Now it's just a waiting game for Apple to release the 16" Macbook Pro, and Vienna instruments to come out with an Apple Silicon version of the VEP plug in.
Just for clarity. I own a FF400 and a FF800 which I'm running on older Macs. I don't want to retire them as they have been rock solid.
My Mac is in need of updating it's from 2010 and struggles now.
So It appears as expected that the new M1 Mac will not work directly with Firewire 400/800?
What would be the upgrade path to work with the new M1 Mac - A Babyface Pro?
Would I then be able to use the Babyface with the FF400/800 via an adat cable?
Sorry if these questions are stupidly simplistic - I have trouble getting my with the technical aspects at times
Best
K
Apple Silicon machines do not have FireWire nor drivers for it. And most probably it will stay like that. So there can not be any FW driver from our side.
This is not true. Firewire 800/400 is contained within Thunderbolt 1/2/3. I would really appreciate it if RME can make sure the drivers work for the M1 chip. I have purchased the new mac mini and plan to use the Fireface 400 via the thunderbolt display.
macOS Catalina supports the drivers, so I don't think porting them over would be difficult. RME, if you do it, I will post many, many youtube comments singing the praise of RME's commitment to customers.
Having just purchased a new computer, I cannot afford a new RME interface. If RME can port the drivers over, I will definitely purchase a new RME interface when my budget allows. If not, I'll have to get some crappy Behringer...
MC wrote:Apple Silicon machines do not have FireWire nor drivers for it. And most probably it will stay like that. So there can not be any FW driver from our side.
This is not true. Firewire 800/400 is contained within Thunderbolt 1/2/3. I would really appreciate it if RME can make sure the drivers work for the M1 chip. I have purchased the new mac mini and plan to use the Fireface 400 via the thunderbolt display.
macOS Catalina supports the drivers, so I don't think porting them over would be difficult. RME, if you do it, I will post many, many youtube comments singing the praise of RME's commitment to customers.
Having just purchased a new computer, I cannot afford a new RME interface. If RME can port the drivers over, I will definitely purchase a new RME interface when my budget allows. If not, I'll have to get some crappy Behringer...
Wow....just, wow. You've bought a new Mac, knowing that your old interface (released in, what, 2007?) wouldn't be supported but now (with your obviously extensive knowledge of how much time/effort is involved in developing drivers) expect RME to provide support based on you saying that you'll "post many, many youtube comments singing the praise of RME's commitment to customers"? I'm simply stunned by your audacity in posting this.
Well, Audacity yes or no, it this
Firewire 800/400 is contained within Thunderbolt 1/2/3.
and this
macOS Catalina supports the drivers, so I don't think porting them over would be difficult.
is true, it would just be incredibly great if RME could provide the support for the older Firefaces!
Both those statements combined can't be true. Catalina doesn't run at all on M1 Macs. And MC's statement was about Apple silicon, eg M1 macs.
It seems Big Sur has a few other surprises too, like a new network stack that no longer supports AVB out of the box.
It's easier to blame RME, of course, as Apple doesn't listen to it's customers at all. Kind of humiliating using Apple's feedback channels.
Apple only follows the numbers. Cold-hearted stats, in stead of emotions, as some would like.
Nothin' new under the sun. At least, Steve could sell those numbers as if they were emotions...
Apple Silicon machines do not have FireWire nor drivers for it. And most probably it will stay like that. So there can not be any FW driver from our side.
Hello,
I can confirm that FireWire works on the new Apple Silicon Macs. I have the MacBook Air, base model and can plug in an external FW hard drive which works fine. I'm hoping this means it will be possible to get my FireFace 400 working?
AndrewHall wrote:MC wrote:Apple Silicon machines do not have FireWire nor drivers for it. And most probably it will stay like that. So there can not be any FW driver from our side.
This is not true. Firewire 800/400 is contained within Thunderbolt 1/2/3. I would really appreciate it if RME can make sure the drivers work for the M1 chip. I have purchased the new mac mini and plan to use the Fireface 400 via the thunderbolt display.
macOS Catalina supports the drivers, so I don't think porting them over would be difficult. RME, if you do it, I will post many, many youtube comments singing the praise of RME's commitment to customers.
Having just purchased a new computer, I cannot afford a new RME interface. If RME can port the drivers over, I will definitely purchase a new RME interface when my budget allows. If not, I'll have to get some crappy Behringer...
Wow....just, wow. You've bought a new Mac, knowing that your old interface (released in, what, 2007?) wouldn't be supported but now (with your obviously extensive knowledge of how much time/effort is involved in developing drivers) expect RME to provide support based on you saying that you'll "post many, many youtube comments singing the praise of RME's commitment to customers"? I'm simply stunned by your audacity in posting this.
I had done my research and knew that FW is supported on the new macs. And now I've tried it. It works. I also know that for the vast majority of cases, porting over small drivers is a relatively simple task. Many, many developers for external peripherals have either updated their drivers or are in the process of doing it. And, it appears that TotalMix and the Fireface Settings app already work under rosetta 2.
I really don't like throwing away perfectly good hardware because of software compatibility. RME makes rock-solid products and I'm sure would be supportive of minimising e-waste by updating drivers. And that's why Apple spent so much effort making sure the tools are available to make the transition as smooth as possible.
Both those statements combined can't be true. Catalina doesn't run at all on M1 Macs. And MC's statement was about Apple silicon, eg M1 macs.
It seems Big Sur has a few other surprises too, like a new network stack that no longer supports AVB out of the box.
It's easier to blame RME, of course, as Apple doesn't listen to its customers at all. Kind of humiliating using Apple's feedback channels.
Apple only follows the numbers. Cold-hearted stats, in stead of emotions, as some would like.
Nothin' new under the sun. At least, Steve could sell those numbers as if they were emotions...
For clarity, I don't think anyone is "blaming RME" for anything. We're all finding out what works and what doesn't on the fly. As far as I'm concerned, RME is the best in the business and I'm sure pretty much everyone on this forum would agree.
MC quite rightly pointed out that the developer macs did not support firewire, and that this likely meant they would not be supported at all. Now that we have the new macs, we know that FW is supported, and the majority of FW devices I've plugged in just work.
It's quite possible that FireFace devices could work well on the new Apple silicon mac, and probably with a relatively small amount of effort. I see no harm in exploring the option.
OK, Sorry. I didn't realise MC was talking about the dev Macs.
Maybe MC just meant they needed to wait for the release machines and couldn't do any development on the dev Macs?
As I own a FF400 I surely wouldn't mind a FW driver for the M1... 
EDIT:
And I see now in this thread a driver is coming:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 39#p161639
The Mac FireWire driver (3.39) works under Big Sur as does the former USB driver (3.19). Only PCIe and TB needed changes. M1 drivers for FireWire will be checked as soon as we received a unit with TB port. The developer preview unit that we got had only USB.
FireWire driver for M1 (v 3.40) is now available on our website.
Honestly nothing but respect to RME for the support of discontinued products, this is why I always recommend RME to friends contemplating buying an audio interface.
I bought my Fireface 400 in 2007 loved it so much rather than sell it and get a USB audio interface, I ended up getting it serviced by Syntax in the UK, should be good for another 10 years, even bought a few extra Firewire PCIe cards for back up!
For Xmas was going to treat myself to a new Macbook Pro and now I know the Fireface will work, my only hurdle to clear is how to connect it in a reliable fashion to the MBP!!
Great work RME, take a bow
Quick additional question. I don't see any issue with using the FF800 as additional line and Mic inputs etc. for the Babyface, which will work on Silicon macs. Is there any reason not to buy a Babyface Pro and use the FF800 in stand alone as a studio "dock" for my audio audio hardware etc.? Seems like this would be perfect for me if the FF800 in stand alone can act as an ADAT slave.
This is exactly my setup on the M1 mac. I have a babyface pro as the main interface and I use the FF800 as expansion This is where I connect all my analog hardware to Too bad though that the ff800 won't be able to run on Apple Silicon
Says who?
I vaguely remember you did, based on the prototype ARM mac, based on the fact that one had no drivers for Firewire.
Of course, that was a long time ago. But fora have a better memory than mine. I just came across it a few days ago, while looking for something else.
Post 21 isn't so far away to be overlooked.
Of course, MC. We all speak prematurely, from time to time. Unfortunately, fora retain our words.
Just received new M1 mini and, with the help of a savy friend and some reading of this forum, I am working through updating my FF800 desktop LOGIC system from a 2008ish iMac and MBpro system.
Got the current FF800 drivers and such installed (THANK you RME!) and LOGIC11 is running.
No stress-test yet as I am first figuring out how to wrangle the existing array of hard drives.
got a BUNCH of legacy hard drives:
one is a USB string of various desktop and wallet drives running on a USB hub,
and
the other is a FW daisy-chain of 4 GLYPH drives (All FW800 except the last which is 400).
For years now I have used the FF800 as a FW hub, with the iMac feeding the FF on one of its 800 ports, and the FW drives strung off the other FF FW800 port, one oddball desktop drive hung of the FF FW400 port, and all was seamless.
For the mini I have the double-adapter set of Thunderbolt3->Tbolt2 into Tbolt2->FW800 on each Tbolt port.
If I feed one Tbolt port to one of the FF800 FW800 ports, and try what I HAVE been doing; putting the string of GLYPH FW drives on the second FF 800 port... the drives dont show up.
If I put that string of Glyph drives directly on the second Tbolt port... they show up fine.
Is this a hint of an impending data traffic-jam?
Hey MC, just wanted to say seeing RME support their products with this level of care has won me over and I will be purchasing a UCX or UCX II in the very near future.
My current firewire interface finally gave up the ghost to time and Big Sur and the vendor has stated I’m SOL. This isn’t a unique experience and I have friends who have bought other very high end interfaces and been told the same thing by those vendors as well.
Cheers to y’all standing behind your product. It speaks volumes.
Just following-along on this thread about FF 400-800 (I have a FF 800) and modern Macs, I just want to say: mine works GREAT with an iMac Pro (Intel, yes, but keep reading) via an external Thunderbolt 3 PCI Chassis (with silent fan). This tiny external TB3-to-PCI chassis hosts a Texas Instruments' based Firewire 800 PCI-E card with ZERO ISSUES.
I've got perfect AD/DA (zero pops, perfect audio), and insane low-latency that essentially feels no different than if my FF800 was natively a "Thunderbolt Face" audio interface.
So I may have missed if anyone has tried the above "TB 3 external PCI card --> FF 800" chain with their M1 Apple Silicon Mac -- but here is my own hypothesis: since the Thunderbolt standard (and MacOS) allow for certain external PCI interfaces, it is entirely possible Apple migrated the standard built-in Firewire PCI card awareness (for TI based Firewire PCI-E, anyway). So this type of connection chain is well worth a try with an M1 Mac, if it hasn't been tried.
So my thought is that it is very possible / likely that M1 Macs may be able to leverage external PCI cards, so long as the Firewire card itself is extremely standardized with a solid chipset (like the TI based Firewire PCI cards) and the default MacOS driver exists for ARM Macs.
So, on the off-chance nobody has yet tried this (I got ADHD so I may have missed, lol) --- this weekend I will give it a try: I will swing my external PCI chassis (which connects to my FF 800, via the aforementioned TI Firewire PCI card) away from my iMac Pro, and over to my M1 Mac Mini and test. I will do this same test with my 2021 M1 Max MBP as well.
So I'll report back on how my M1 Mac Mini & 2021 M1 Max MBP do. I am running Monterey on both, with 3rd party Kernel drivers set to Allowed.
RME have been so absolutely AMAZING in their long, long-term support of FF 800 with driver & utility updates, that I'm actually excited to try. I really feel like that new 3.41 driver, if it sees my TB3 PCI-E Chassis & Firewire card (all up to Apple & MacOS) then I'm home-free.
And I don't really care if the audio mgmt app needs Rosetta, because that's all managed outside my DAW (Logic, usually) anyway.
Will be a few days before I get the lab time to test, but watch this space.
Just received new M1 mini and, with the help of a savy friend and some reading of this forum, I am working through updating my FF800 desktop LOGIC system from a 2008ish iMac and MBpro system.
Got the current FF800 drivers and such installed (THANK you RME!) and LOGIC11 is running.
No stress-test yet as I am first figuring out how to wrangle the existing array of hard drives.got a BUNCH of legacy hard drives:
one is a USB string of various desktop and wallet drives running on a USB hub,
and
the other is a FW daisy-chain of 4 GLYPH drives (All FW800 except the last which is 400).For years now I have used the FF800 as a FW hub, with the iMac feeding the FF on one of its 800 ports, and the FW drives strung off the other FF FW800 port, one oddball desktop drive hung of the FF FW400 port, and all was seamless.
For the mini I have the double-adapter set of Thunderbolt3->Tbolt2 into Tbolt2->FW800 on each Tbolt port.
If I feed one Tbolt port to one of the FF800 FW800 ports, and try what I HAVE been doing; putting the string of GLYPH FW drives on the second FF 800 port... the drives dont show up.
If I put that string of Glyph drives directly on the second Tbolt port... they show up fine.
Is this a hint of an impending data traffic-jam?
Great post, I missed this but it gives me hope for my own plan to test my M1 Macs this weekend with my FF 800. In my own scenario I'm not using a TB-to-FW adapter, but instead am doing TB3 PCI Chassis --> PCI-E Firewire Card --> FF 800. No drives hanging off of it or anything like that (moved on to TB3 mSATA SSDs drives and a local Synology NAS for archiving/samples).
Based on your experience, I'm 80% sure I can get my M1 Macs rolling along on my FF 800, thanks for sharing your good news.
--- this weekend I will give it a try: I will swing my external PCI chassis (which connects to my FF 800, via the aforementioned TI Firewire PCI card) away from my iMac Pro, and over to my M1 Mac Mini and test. I will do this same test with my 2021 M1 Max MBP as well.
So I'll report back on how my M1 Mac Mini & 2021 M1 Max MBP do. I am running Monterey on both, with 3rd party Kernel drivers set to Allowed.
So my external TB-to-PCI --> Firewire PCI-E card --> FF 800 worked perfectly!
So same exact experience as on my Intel iMac Pro, RME Fireface Settings app auto launches & TotalMix sees everything. Same story for Logic Pro X.
So driver v3.41 will work on any M1 Max MBP using a Firewire PCI-E card (via a good TB-to-PCI Chassis).
Merry Christmas!
I'm really impressed that my old FF800 is still supported, even on a brand new CPU arch! When I upgrade you can guarantee it will be to another RME interface.
Although to be honest you may have have made this unit too good-- at this point it appears its utility will outlive me.
Hello, I hope someone can help me here.
I have started a recording session yesterday, with my Fireface 800 connected to my Macbook Pro M1 Pro (with Apple adapters), replacing my Mac Pro 2009.
Unfortunately I have some audio-glitches on my tracks. I have tried to record with Cubase 12 Pro and Logic Pro X and I have the same issue on both programs.
When switching back the the Mac Pro 2009 there is no glitches.
All settings are the same.
Has anyone experienced this iproblem? What can I do to get rid of these glitches?
Thanks!
The RME-support is great. They told me that my Apple adapters are defective. They where right. I bought new adapters and everything is working perfectly now.
The RME-support is great. They told me that my Apple adapters are defective. They where right. I bought new adapters and everything is working perfectly now.
What adapters did you buy?
Will this still work when the "Legacy system extension" stops working - as in, when this https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35155 will be necessary?
Thank you for continuing to support my trusty FF800. Incredible and amazing that you have released drivers for M1 Macs.
RME has the BEST end user support in the world - hands down!!
Dear users,
I'm proud owner of FF400 and it's finally time to move from macbook pro early 2011 to Macbook air M1. Please can someone help me and give me right informations in order to make this transformation successfully.
1) what exact adapters/cables I have to get?
2) does it FF 400 have to be connected to power suply in order to operate?
Thank you in advance!
If you have a PSU, then I would use it until all works, then check whether all is still running without.
I think it's even mandatory to have such an external PSU for the unit, to be able to make checks whether there are problems with FW “inline” power. I think it's not possible to predict, whether power coming from FW will be sufficient or not, depending on the HW components inside the computer.
Regarding adapters, I can't tell.
RME User Forum → FireWire & USB series → Fireface 400-800 and Apple Silicon
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