Topic: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Hello,

I am hoping to get confirmation that I understand syncing devices correctly..

If I were to use external and separate AD & DA converters with my HDSPe AIO, the AD converter will transmit word clock via AES to the AIO. The DA will then receive word clock via AES from the AIO. Are there any settings that need to be changed in this scenario? Will the AIO simply pass the word clock received from the AD converter to the DA?

I would have the same questions for using a combined AD/DA converter like the ADI-2 Pro. Would there be any change to settings in the AIO or is it just plug and play?

David

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

The AIO has to be set to clock from AES or digital in, in your case. It will transmit the clock automagically. But the external DA must be set to clock from the receiving clock.
There are very few cases where it would go right automagically.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Got it. Thank you, Vincent.

Is there any issue when using a combined AD/DA converter since it would be sending and receiving its own word clock signal? In effect, creating a loop. Forgive me, my knowledge of digital syncing is limited (clearly).

David

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

If set incorrectly that can happen if both are set to slave, I have done that by accident and depending on the gear used, you will get silence or terrible noise. Silence means the device has proper safeguards.
So with one AD-DA one should be slave one master.
And to answer your question in advance, with many AD DA's there can only be one master. Depending on the setup this can be very logical or a gigantic puzzle.
I have a HDSP9652 with all digital connections used (All 3 adats and 1 spdif) so 8 devices and it was a puzzle ;-).
But once you get it it is all very logical.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Very helpful and much appreciated. Based on what I’ve read, the device performing the AD conversion (whether separate or combined with DA) should be the master and the AIO would slave to that (in my case, via AES in). Hopefully, that is correct.

I think I have it now. Just wanted to make sure I didn’t miss anything or need additional equipment to do it.

David

6 (edited by ramses 2020-12-08 16:10:02)

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Hi, there are several ways to achieve the objective.

I think it is the easiest and best solution from the handling point of view to make the recording interface the clock master, which is directly connected to the computer. Then the sample rate is being set by the DAW/application and the connected Clock Slaves can learn this clock from their digital input.

In the case of the ADI-2 DAC/Pro the clock signal is being refreshed and D/A conversion happens with its own internal FS clock.

If the devices, which you want to have as clock slave, do not offer a digital input port (ADAT, AES, MADI) - which is often the case for mic preamps - then you need to use WC (Word Clock).

In your case the AIO does not support WC, so you need to clock via ADAT/AES/SPDIF. It can even be the case that you need to make the external device to the clock source, if this device can not receive clock if there is no digital input. Or if WC is present, but your recording interface doesn't support WC like in your case.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Thank you, Ramses. I’ve read previously that AD converters work best on their own internal clocks but your suggestion does appear easier. For reference, I’ve attached a snip of the signal flow. Please let me know if you see any discrepancies. Can the AD converter be used as the master since the AIO isn’t performing any conversion?

David
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oy44ow3b23lsrbx/SIGNAL%20FLOW.PNG?raw=1

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Would be good to mention the product names, to see whats possible in terms of cabling / clocking.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Sure. Haven’t made a final decision yet but let’s say a Mytek Stereo 192 ADC and a Mytek Stereo 96 DAC for hypothetical purposes.

David

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

So the preamp on the left works fully analog, no digital output ports ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Correct. All analog going from the XLR outs to the XLR inputs of the ADC.

David

12 (edited by ramses 2020-12-08 17:40:11)

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

What is a  "Mytek Stereo 192 ADC" ? This here ? Mytek Stereo192 DSD DAC ?
Could you kindly name the products the way the vendor does ? Otherwise I am not sure, whether I found the correct one.
Even better would be to link with Thomman or the vendors product page.
Why ? Because then its easier for me to look at the back of the devices, which i/o ports it has, wc or not .. etc
In most cases this is the quickest way to get answers ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

No problem. I should have done that in the first place.

AD - https://mytekdigital.com/professional/p … o-192-adc/

DA - https://mytekdigital.com/professional/p … eo-96-dac/

David

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

As the AIO has no WC, use the ADC as clock master, all other devices clock slaves.

In this setup you could also think about whether to get a RayDAT which has a WC option.
Then the RayDAT could become clock master
- ADC clocked via WC
- DAC clocked by AES out.

In contrast to that a full RME solution could be a combination of
- UCX or UFXII/UFX+ and
- ADI-2 DAC or Pro FS R BE
Where the recording interface would be clock master and ADI-2 * clock slave.
By this you could set clock by the application/daw .. the ADI-2 devices perform d/a conversion with the internal FS clock.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

15 (edited by kivos80 2020-12-08 18:11:51)

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Got it. Would the RME WCM be a cost effective solution in lieu of changing of interfaces?

https://m.thomannmusic.com/rme_wcm_hdsp … 1607447234

David

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Sorry my fault, when just looking to the product page on archive webserver
https://archiv.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdspe_aio.php
I had it wrong in my memory and though, that information about WC would be listed in the top right grey corner "connectivity".
It could be that you have maybe really a little advantage to use the clock of the device where A/D conversion takes place, it simply depends on, how good WC is implemented on that device.
To keep costs low and if you do not see any operational disadvantage, that you can also easily set the clock at the ADC.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: HDSPe AIO sync questions

Ok great. Thank you for your help!

David