1 (edited by Lane Visitor 2020-12-07 05:42:19)

Topic: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

Hi RME team,

I'm a huge fan of your gear, and have been loving my ADI 2 Pro FS ever since I upgraded from my Babyface last year.

It has worked flawlessly for me, and I have been working toward upgrading my mixing chain, wanting to get some outboard flavor to use as inserts / loops, etc.

I understand fully that this unit is not meant for doing analog gear inserts on the master bus, but I simply want to test an Audio-scape Buss Compressor I bought during a drunk impulse buy a few weeks ago big_smile to see how it would sound on my mixes.

I plan to add more channels to my chain by adding another set of converters via digital, but I had read it would be possible still to pass signal out of the ADI into a downstream device and back into the ADI where I could monitor - or even if not - then listen back to the results after routing back to original state.

When I tried the method laid out in research on this forum "Change Device to Multichannel Mode by unplugging USB ... and set up the bus in your DAW". So I went ahead and turned on Multi Channel mode, and then plugged by USB back in and not only was I not able to pass the signal to my bus compressor...

But I no longer was able to hear any audio coming through either my monitors (analog out 1/2), or my headphones out 3/4. I even tried headphones out 1/2, and let me know I cannot use it as it's connected to 1/2.

Any idea what is going on here? Is this a expected result, a faulty unit, or do I need to adjust the settings somewhere?

Also, just to confirm, when I switched the mode back to Stereo Mode, I was then able to hear sound out of 1/2 and 3/4 as usual.

Thank you for your help!!

Best,

David

My headphone

2 (edited by ramses 2020-12-07 09:04:12)

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

If I understand your demand correctly, then you look for more flexibility when working with the ADI-2 Pro.
More channels / routing, etc.

I wrote a few blog articles about this device, maybe they help you to get an idea how to make best use of the ADI-2 Pro.

These two are related to each other:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ort-DE-EN/

If you look for a USB/FW/TB recording interface, then the excel file in the blog article is of help for you:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … B-MADIfac/
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 0-08-xlsx/

In short, get a recording interface and use the ADI-2 Pro for monitoring over speakers and phones.
You can also use its analog inputs.
The recording interface gives you TM FX / routing capabilities and a variety of i/o ports that you might require:
Mic, Instr, analog ports, ADAT/SPDIF, AES, MIDI, ...

You can also use a PCI/PCIe card .. you only need at least ADAT/SPDIF/AES for a digital connection from/to the ADI-2 Pro.

Best is to use a RME recording interface to get TM FX and if you get a TM FX capable interface, then you can even use the ARC USB for a little bit more comfort when working with the TM FX control room and other features.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9735), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

3

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

Incomplete description. After changing to multichannel mode, did you restart your DAW and assigned all interface I/Os again? Did the Settings dialog of the Pro show the Multichannel mode as active?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

4 (edited by Lane Visitor 2020-12-31 18:52:21)

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

Thank you Mathias and Ramses, and apologies for the late reply!

So I did restart my DAW and messed with i/o settings until I could hear either monitors or headphones again, which is a good first step. I tried to run my analog outputs through my Audio-scape bus compressor, by setting up insert / fx channel / etc in Cubase 8 but no signal.

In either case, I will want more channels to do this regardless so I can monitor and run things though. I would like at least one more channel. I actually have an original Babyface (non pro) and after researching the forums, I learned I can connect my Babyface to the ADI  2 Pro FS via ADAT, so I purchased 2 Toslink cables to do so.

A few questions...

First, If I connect the Adi 2 Pro FS and the Babyface, can I choose which is the master and which is the slave or will it default to one over the other - if so, which will it be? I assume either way, I could still use whichever I want as the one to monitor with and the other one to run my DAW stems through as a loop into my Silver Bullet? I imagine running my track through the SB with my Babyface outputs would be a significant drop in conversion quality, right?

Second, I was considering an ADI 8 DS MKIII.... Could I do the same thing with this instead of the Babyface to get more channels and a little better conversion? I know it doesn't have TotalMix, but I'd like to have at least 6-8 channels to use as inserts, loops, etc. to process my DAW tracks and mixes which is the ultimate goal...

What do you suggest given my goal that will be the most cost effective?

Thank you so much and happy holidays!

Best,sorry - one last question... Is it possible to connect 2 adi 2 pro fs units and achieve what I am looking to do? Just to get two more sets of channels... This way I would not have any degrading of quality in the loop going to silver bullet and back. Thanks!

David

5 (edited by ramses 2020-12-31 18:58:01)

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

If you consider  ADI 8 DS MKII then I have another (better) proposal to you.

Combination of UFX+ and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE.
UFX+ as clock master, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE connected via ADAT or AES, as clock slave in stand-alone mode.

UFX+ because it also offers 8 analog I/O like the ADI 8 DS MKIII and is a very nice recording interface. As the analog ports are directly on the UFX+, then you can use them up to 192 kHz without any channel loss over ADAT because of channel multiplexing.
Great features: USB3 and Thunderbolt. DURec, Autoset, great scalability via MADI. Also USB2 possible (without MADI ports).
Optional: ARC USB.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9735), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

ramses wrote:

If you consider  ADI 8 DS MKII then I have another (better) proposal to you.

Combination of UFX+ and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE.
UFX+ as clock master, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE connected via ADAT or AES, as clock slave in stand-alone mode.

UFX+ because it also offers 8 analog I/O like the ADI 8 DS MKIII and is a very nice recording interface. As the analog ports are directly on the UFX+, then you can use them up to 192 kHz without any channel loss over ADAT because of channel multiplexing.
Great features: USB3 and Thunderbolt. DURec, Autoset, great scalability via MADI. Also USB2 possible (without MADI ports).
Optional: ARC USB.

Hi Ramses,

Thank you for the quick reply and recommendation here! A few questions:

-You mention the FS R BE model - I assume I could still do this with a non R BE version, as I only have the ADI 2 Pro FS, and wouldn't want to have to purchase another if I don't need to?

-The UFX+ looks like a great product with those capabilities, but it's a little over my budget right now. If I went with the ADI 8 DS MKIII and connected it to my ADI 2 Pro FS, would I still be able to use both together so that I can:

Use the ADI 2 Pro FS to:
*Monitor via my 2 channel studio monitors
*Monitor out of my headphones
*Record my mic (via outboard preamp) X2 if need be

Use the ADI 8 DS MkIII to:
*Have 8 channels to send my DAW mixes/tracks through whatever analog gear I'd like to
-Specifically, I'd like use channels 1/2 on this to run from my DAW into my LTL Silver Bullet, and then Silver Bullet back into my DAW. (Eventually some re-amping, running through samplers, cheap compressors for fun, etc).

?

Would you agree that using my ADI 2 Pro FS w/ Babyface (original) channels to run through the Silver Bullet and back on mixes would be a downgrade of my chain in terms of conversion? For this reason, I'm thinking either the DS mk III or perhaps another ADI 2 Pro FS since I really only need two more channels? Those are the two units in my budget, otherwise - I can just stick with ADI 2 Pro FS and Babyface, though I wonder how much at least the DS mk III would improve conversion from Babyface - I already know 2 FS Pro is a huge step up. smile

Thank you!

Best,

David

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

> You mention the FS R BE model - I assume I could still do this with a non R BE version,
> as I only have the ADI 2 Pro FS, and wouldn't want to have to purchase another if I don't need to?

No need to, sry, I just used the name of the current model.

> The UFX+ looks like a great product with those capabilities, but it's a little over my budget right now.

Then get the UFX II instead.

> If I went with the ADI 8 DS MKIII and connected it to my ADI 2 Pro FS,
> would I still be able to use both together so that I can:

Makes no sense, ADI-2 * has no real routing capability and uses only 2ch out of 8ch from an ADAT audio stream.
And if you would use double speed then you would even use 2x ADAT I/O which the ADI-2 Pro also does not provide.

I would get a combination of UFX II and ADI-2 Pro FS and sell the rest, because the price difference between RME ADI 8 DS MKIII and UFX II is only €1833 - 1466 = €367
MKIII and UFX II is only €2137 - 1466 = €671

https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_adi8_ds.htm €1466
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_ufx_ii.htm €1833
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_ufx_2.htm €2137

If you sell the old Babyface then you might get around €400. So the UFX II is definitively in scope.

And tbh, I personally would go then for the UFX+, which is only €271 on top (if you sell BBF for €400) have the flexibility to use either USB2/3 or Thunderbolt plus the expandability through ADAT and MADI.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9735), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

ramses wrote:

> You mention the FS R BE model - I assume I could still do this with a non R BE version,
> as I only have the ADI 2 Pro FS, and wouldn't want to have to purchase another if I don't need to?

No need to, sry, I just used the name of the current model.

> The UFX+ looks like a great product with those capabilities, but it's a little over my budget right now.

Then get the UFX II instead.

> If I went with the ADI 8 DS MKIII and connected it to my ADI 2 Pro FS,
> would I still be able to use both together so that I can:

Makes no sense, ADI-2 * has no real routing capability and uses only 2ch out of 8ch from an ADAT audio stream.
And if you would use double speed then you would even use 2x ADAT I/O which the ADI-2 Pro also does not provide.

I would get a combination of UFX II and ADI-2 Pro FS and sell the rest, because the price difference between RME ADI 8 DS MKIII and UFX II is only €1833 - 1466 = €367
MKIII and UFX II is only €2137 - 1466 = €671

https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_adi8_ds.htm €1466
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_ufx_ii.htm €1833
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_ufx_2.htm €2137

If you sell the old Babyface then you might get around €400. So the UFX II is definitively in scope.

And tbh, I personally would go then for the UFX+, which is only €271 on top (if you sell BBF for €400) have the flexibility to use either USB2/3 or Thunderbolt plus the expandability through ADAT and MADI.

Hi Mathias,

Thank you for the reply... This makes sense and sounds like a UFX+ or atleast UFXii will be in my future gear purchases...

However, can you please help me answer in the meantime, whether I can:

-Use my current Babyface original to connect to my ADI 2 Pro FS via Toslink so I can:

*Use the Babyface Channels 1/2 Outputs (bypassing preamps which I've done before) and sending my DAW mix into my Silver Bullet and then back into the Babyface 1/2 Inputs and then back into my DAW
*All the while monitoring all of this via the ADI 2 Pro FS as normal ?

I understand it will be a downgrade in conversion and only 2 more channels and am ok with this for time being until I make a purchase. I simply want to know if this setup will work functionally.

-Also, will the same scenario work if I hooked up 2 RME ADI 2 Pro FS's in order to retain conversion quality in the loop?

Thank you!

Best,

David

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

I am not Matthias wink


> Use the Babyface Channels 1/2 Outputs (bypassing preamps which I've done before) and
> sending my DAW mix into my Silver Bullet and then back into the Babyface 1/2 Inputs and then back into my DAW

This part I do not understand. If I got it right the Silver Bullet is simply an Amplifier.
https://store.louderthanliftoff.com/pro … o-tone-amp
Why would you want to send something back from there ?

> "All the while monitoring all of this via the ADI 2 Pro FS as normal ?"
I though that you monitor/listen through the Silver Bullet amp.
And the audio signal available already at the Babyface, so you can also send to phones or whatever monitoring you need.

Could you kindly provide a better explanation - maybe with a drawing - what you intend to do ?
Because I lost you, I do not understand your demand anymore.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9735), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

10 (edited by KaiS 2021-01-01 20:55:27)

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

Looks like it’s mojo device smile

... designed to infuse missing analog mojo into your digital world. MOJO Amps™ capturing the vibe of vintage American and British consoles are coupled with a musical results-driven set of tone shaping ...

... The Silver Bullet is very effective at introducing desirable analog artifacts (i.e. 'mojo')...

Would be interesting to hear a track before and after.

11 (edited by Lane Visitor 2021-01-02 00:18:39)

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

ramses wrote:

I am not Matthias wink


> Use the Babyface Channels 1/2 Outputs (bypassing preamps which I've done before) and
> sending my DAW mix into my Silver Bullet and then back into the Babyface 1/2 Inputs and then back into my DAW

This part I do not understand. If I got it right the Silver Bullet is simply an Amplifier.
https://store.louderthanliftoff.com/pro … o-tone-amp
Why would you want to send something back from there ?

> "All the while monitoring all of this via the ADI 2 Pro FS as normal ?"
I though that you monitor/listen through the Silver Bullet amp.
And the audio signal available already at the Babyface, so you can also send to phones or whatever monitoring you need.

Could you kindly provide a better explanation - maybe with a drawing - what you intend to do ?
Because I lost you, I do not understand your demand anymore.

Hi Ramses,

Apologies for the name typo haha!

So the Silver Bullet, like Kais mentions, is a tone shaping/mojo box... essentially a stereo mic and line preamp that's designed to process either individual mix elements in (our outside of) your DAW or your whole 2 bus mix, and can also act as a mic preamp.

The application isn't anything complex - it would literally be to send my DAW mix through the 2 Babyface outputs into the Silver Bullet to add saturation/tone shaping/etc. and then record that back into my DAW to print the new processed stereo mix via the Babyface inputs. This would be the only current need for me with the Babyface. The remaining applications (monitor via speakers/phones, and record mic signals) would be done via ADI 2 Pro FS...

See the routing visual on page 25 of the manual here:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0574/ … 4346378014

To clarify - my goal is to know:

a. Whether the Babyface (original) hooked up via Toslink ADAT to my ADI 2 Pro FS can achieve the above
and
b. If 2 separate ADI 2 Pro FS's hooked up together can also achieve this. This option would get me much better conversion during the loop into and out of the Silver Bullet presumably. But for just 2 bus processing, adding color - not sure it's worth spending on (also considering that I will be upgrading to the UFX+ eventually for more channels anyway)

Thank you!

Best,

David

12 (edited by ramses 2021-01-02 01:10:40)

Re: Output 1/2 + PH 3/4 Not Passing Signal In MutliChannel Mode

I would
- make the interface with routing capabilities to the main interface (BBF with TM FX suppport)
- connect the ADI-2 Pro FS via ADAT to the BBF as clock slave
Then you can send audio via ADAT to the ADI-2 Pro FS and also read from this interface.

Advantage: by this the application will set the wanted sample rate and the ADI-2 Pro FS will learn the sample rate automatically via ADAT.

Setup see here:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ort-DE-EN/

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9735), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE