• Registered: 2021-02-09
  • Posts: 1

Topic: What to purchase next?

Hi All,

Apologies for posting what may seem like a fairly straightforward question to some, but I could do with some advice on how to expand my current set up and/or upgrade. I feel my understanding of the options is quite limited, so looking for some possible different options.

I'm currently running a FireFace 400 on Windows 10 Desktop and Cubase 6.5. I'm perfectly happy with the device itself, and it's the one piece of kit that seems to never have any issues (Windows 10 and Cubase on the other hand are not always my friend when it comes to stability!).

I also purchased a 2020 iPad Pro 12" and have a macbook Pro, which i use mainly for work but also has Logic 10 installed (but haven't used in anger). But I'd like to explore utilising these more for mobile recording rather than trailing cables around the house and/or shifting my PC set-up. I record a mixture of instruments, acoustic piano, vocals, acoustic guitar and violin. Most of the time it is just me - but changes in circumstances and having more space now may give me options of recording groups further down the line (when social distancing lifts - at the moment it is definitely a 1 man band!)

After going round the houses and looking at cheaper USB interfaces that I can capture a couple of mic/line inputs into, I am reluctant to buy something that i may regret further down the line that may not have the quality/ flexibility that I need - particularly on the mic pres. I previously nearly pulled the trigger on a MOTU 828es, but had a niggle in the back of my mind that it wasn't the way to go, and also I am somewhat reluctant move away from Totalmix. Also, I do a great deal of work with virtual instruments (mainly orchestral libraries) and latency is really key for me here - hence purchasing the FF400 in the first instance.

So...what am I looking for.

1. Something with at least 2 XLR inputs and 2 Line inputs
2. Ability to expand number of mic inputs (relatively easily - I imagine I would need no more than 12 in any scenario)
3. I often use spdif (coax) for a number of older devices that I capture from
4. I would love the ability to record directly to my ipad and macbook (and if at all possible, my android phone at a push). without the hassle of firing up a PC.
5. I like my FireFace 400 - so any options I have around using this in addition to another device simultaneously would be great (an extra spdif input would be useful as well as the extra mic pres).
6. Class Compliant mode seems to be something I am definitely going to need, and therefore USB is a must.

I get that this sort of puts me in the ballpark of a Babyface Pro FS or perhaps a UCX, but wondering what others think. Are there other options I am missing?


Thank you in advance,

Paul

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-02-09 21:25:30)

  • ramses
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Re: What to purchase next?

Simply as an option esp as you told, that you have also an iPAD so I thought about the nice CC feature of the XTC.
And as XTC has been advertized as the best preamp for an iPAD.
The smallest setup for you: see posting below, any USB recording interface with TM FX and ADAT will do.

As the Octamic XTC has been advertized to be the perfect recording interface for iPAD
a combination of FF400 and Octamic XTC could be a nice solution for you as a 1st step, so that you can split costs.

Octamic XTC has several nice features, among that Class Compliant mode / audio through USB.

Later you could replace the FF400 by whatever recording interface you like, even one with MADI so that you can connect the XTC through MADI (remote control by MIDI over MADI saves MADI cabling). Then you would have no issues with double (and quad speed) as there are enough channels.
And you have now all the nice benefits to be able to use it as Auxdevice to remote control and save/recall most important settings like gain, phantom power, PAD, etc ...

Ok Octamic XTC costs €1949, but is very versatile: https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_octamic_xtc.htm
Can also be used as format converter between ADAT, AES (it has 4x AES I/O), MADI.
And it also has 2 very nice phones outputs, very useful as well.

I use e.g. a combination of UFX+ ----MADI----- XTC ---MADI--- 12Mic
                                             |
                                             +-- ADI-2 pro---+-monitors
                                                                     +-phones
Just to put an example.

Some nice blog articles about that:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … Cber-MADI/

This excel can support you to choose an interface:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … B-MADIfac/

Some of my use cases: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … -DURec-DE/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • breun
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Re: What to purchase next?

An RME Babyface (Pro or Pro FS) will give you 2 mic/line XLR inputs, 2 line TRS inputs, SPDIF/ADAT connectivity and MIDI in a portable USB bus-powered unit. You can add 8 analog channels via an ADAT unit for a total of 12 analog inputs.

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-02-09 22:24:38)

  • ramses
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Re: What to purchase next?

Although BBF Pro is a good choice for single speed ...
When choosing a Babyface then you have no word clock, then you need to look closely what preamp you choose.

Some preamps have no D/A converter and no ADAT in, then you need WC for clocking it.
Or you need to make the Preamp to clock master.

Better is to make the recording interface to clock master, then you can set sample rate through the applicaction/DAW and the rest of the devices can automatically learn it from main interface.

BBF Pro and AD8200 would be possible, because AD8200 can learn clock through ADAT IN.
BBF Pro and Octamic XTC would also be possible, because XTC can learn clock through ADAT IN.

More flexibility you would have by choosing UC or UCX, this is the successor of the FF400... Both support WC.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

5 Reply by MetalHeadKeys (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2021-02-10 08:27:36)

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: What to purchase next?

Hello, everyone!

@Obba100

What sample rate are you using for your recordings? If you 're recording on 88.2 or 96K, please disregard my recommendation.
But, if you 're using Single speed(44.1, 48K), I can, also, recommend the Digiface USB, along with your FF400(in Stand-alone mode).

The DF Usb has four pairs of ADAT ports(I/O). You can configure the routing on your FF400, in TMFX, store it, and use the FF400 as AD/DA converter.
Then, you will have three more pairs of ADAT I/O, to use as you like! Connecting the XTC and/or the ADI 2 Pro and/or another 8channel AD/DA(that offers ADAT connectivity, like the Behringer ADA8200)

The DF Usb has drivers for both Windows and MacOS, but I don't think it's CC compatible.

Also, if you 're planning of getting rid of your firewire card from the PC, then, again, disregard my recommendation, because this will not be a viable solution, if you later decide to change the routing in your FF400!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-02-10 09:21:38)

  • ramses
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Re: What to purchase next?

> Also, if you 're planning of getting rid of your firewire card from the PC, then, again,
> disregard my recommendation, because this will not be a viable solution,
> if you later decide to change the routing in your FF400!

Yes, and..

Digiface USB can be a solution, but with the mentioned "limitation", it also has no WC.

You simply need to plan / be aware of it
- which other devices you want to connect
- where you want to have your clock master

Other question is how comfortably somebody feels having to operate more than 1 recording device and to work with two TM FX instances.

If you use the preamps of the FF400, then you will need to have it connected through Firewire to be able to set/adjust gain. By this you are still not completely independend from Firewire.

I personally wouldn't spend only the least amount of money for a solution, which maybe makes every day operation more tricky.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2021-02-10 10:17:41)

  • waedi
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Re: What to purchase next?

- Madiface Pro (2 Mic inputs)
and
- Octamix XTC (8 Mic inputs)  or - 12 Mic (12 Mic inputs)

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-02-10 09:26:41)

  • ramses
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Re: What to purchase next?

Yep, but problem might be final price / budget.

I only proposed the XTC, because he mentioned his i-devices, esp in terms of the iPAD. As the XTC has been announced to be the perfect recording interface for iPAD mobile recording. I simply wanted to recommend this, as this might be a nice application for him. Of course there are cheaper solutions, combination of recording interface and preamp (ADAT based).

There the question is only,
- whether you stay on single speed or if you need double speed as well
and which components you want to take
- where you want to have the clock master (I prefer at recording interface for operational reasons, that you set the sample rate for all devices through the DAW/application)
- whether you also need WC (if the preamp is missing a digital input to get clock via this input)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

9 Reply by MetalHeadKeys (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2021-02-10 10:28:46)

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: What to purchase next?

Hi, Ramses!!

ramses wrote:

Other question is how comfortably somebody feels having to operate more than 1 recording device and to work with two TM FX instances.

If you use the preamps of the FF400, then you will need to have it connected through Firewire to be able to set/adjust gain. By this you are still not completely independend from Firewire.

I was reffering using the FF400 in stand-alone mode! And in stand-alone mode, it's possible to set the gain with the rotary encoder!
But, you cannot activate 48V or pad from the front panel !

So, I stand half-corrected! smile

So, @Obba100
Please, disregard my recommendation!!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
  • ramses
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Re: What to purchase next?

Good point, thanks for precising it MetalHK wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13