• Registered: 2020-05-19
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Topic: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

I want to create a mix of a hardware input and a software input, and apply an EQ/compressor chain on the software input using TotalMix built-in effects.

The EQ button isn't present on software playback channels. So what can I do?

I thought maybe I could mix the software playback signal on a dedicated hardware output channel where I can apply the EQ, then loopback to the associated hardware input channel, then mix the two hardware inputs to another hardware out. But this doesn't work; I can't get any signal from the hardware input channel associated with the loopback.

FWIW I'm using AN 1/2 for hardware input, AS 1/2 for software playback, and AS 1/2 for hardware output to mix them.

  • mkok
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

You would have to use two loopbacks. You can’t loopback a hardware input and use it as a hardware input at the same time

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  • Registered: 2020-05-19
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

Thank you for your reply.

I’m encouraged to hear that you think it’s possible to accomplish this goal but I don’t understand how to implement the two loopbacks.

Could you walk me through the solution step by step?

Thank you!

4 Reply by Shannon (edited by Shannon 2021-02-15 19:10:21)

  • Registered: 2020-05-19
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

Hardware input AN 1/2
Software playback AS 1/2
Hardware output AS 1/2 for mixing, set to loopback
Hardware input AS 1/2 should be receiving the input signal from loopback

I thought the hardware inputs and software playback are separate channels but it sounds like you're suggesting they're not.

I just also tried:

Hardware input AN 1/2
Software playback AS 1/2
Hardware output ADAT 3/4 for mixing software playback AS 1/2 only, set to loopback
Hardware input ADAT 3/4 should be receiving the input signal from software playback AS 1/2 via loopback
Hardware output ADAT 5/6 for mixing hardware inputs AN 1/2 and ADAT 3/4

This also didn't work; not receiving the signal from software playback AS 1/2.

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-02-15 19:10:31)

  • ramses
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

mkok wrote:

You would have to use two loopbacks. You can’t loopback a hardware input and use it as a hardware input at the same time

yes, but thats not the whole story.
Yes, if you use loopback on a HW output then the corresponding HW input has this audio signal.
But audio arriving on this HW input is still there, not lost, you can still route it to a different HW output.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2020-05-19
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

A more simple version of the problem would be:

SW input > HW output #1 (loopback) > HW input #1 > HW output #2

I don't get any signal coming through HW output #2, and it's hard to see where the failure is because there are no levels on HW input #1.

  • Registered: 2020-05-19
  • Posts: 23

Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

Looks like someone else asked about the same scenario and never solved the problem: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=16367

  • Registered: 2020-05-19
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

After eq and dynamics, I want to mix the software playback channel with a hardware input channel and monitor the result from headphone out on Babyface (by mirroring the mix from hardware output channel to headphones out), then loopback the hardware output to a hardware input where an app can pick it up as input.

9 Reply by Shannon (edited by Shannon 2021-02-16 01:40:02)

  • Registered: 2020-05-19
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

I purchased Rogue Amoeba's Loopback app to help with scenarios that I can't figure out how to do with TotalMix.

I used hardware output AS 1/2 to put an EQ on the signal from playback channel AS 1/2, and enabled loopback. Then using the Rogue Amoeba app I captured the loopback signal from hardware input AS 1/2 and routed it to playback channel ADAT 3/4. Now I have two software playback channels, one pre-EQ and the other should be post-EQ. Then using another hardware output ADAT 3/4, I mix the post-EQ software playback channel with hardware input AN 1/2.

While this is some progress, there's still a blocker: I'm not hearing the EQ applied from hardware output AS 1/2 in the headphones mix, which is the same as hardware output ADAT 3/4. Why?

In addition, I'm frustrated that:
1. I'm using two playback channels and two hardware outputs to accomplish what should be only one of each, if TotalMix supported EQ and dynamics on software playback channels. Feature request...
2. I'm using another piece of software to accomplish something I would expect TotalMix should support: routing the post EQ hardware output back into another submix.

Fwiw, I'm really happy with Rogue Amoeba Loopback so far; IMO it is an intuitive to use and flexible software patchbay solution.

  • Registered: 2020-05-19
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

After more googling, I found the EQ monitoring solution hidden in another app, Fireface USB Settings; "EQ for Record". So confusing.

I'd still like to know whether there's a way to accomplish this without using Rogue Amoeba Loopback or using twice as many channels should be necessary.

Planning to call support tomorrow.

  • Registered: 2020-05-19
  • Posts: 23

Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

Until an answer comes along to my questions in this thread, I've found a solution I like.

I found another Rogue Amoeba app called Audio Hijack that allows me to chain Audio Unit plugins and direct the output to any software device. Using Audio Hijack, I can put an effects chain on my USB microphone (because I ran out of analog inputs on the Babyface Pro the day I bought it) and route the output to a software playback channel in TotalMix, where I can mix it with a hardware input. The hardware output is set to loopback, and I use Rogue Amoeba's Loopback app to direct the signal from the associated hardware input to a virtual device that other apps can use.

12 Reply by rpnfan (edited by rpnfan 2023-04-29 13:04:42)

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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

I also wanted to be able to EQ a single S/W playback channel (3/4) in Totalmix. As this is not directly possible I chained in that way:

3/4 SW playback → AS 1/2 output + loopback → AS 1/2 input + EQ → Main

But I cannot hear anything. Why does that not work?

13 Reply by MC

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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

BF Pro manual, block diagram page 67.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • rpnfan
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

Unfortunately I can not read a block diagram. I tried enabling EQ for record, but that did not change anything. I am still not sure if/ how it is possible to apply an EQ for a S/W playback channel.

P.S.: Should not be too hard to read the block diagram, but it does not make sense to me. Maybe Adrian could make a video how to read that?

  • waedi
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

Take a cable for doing the Loopback instead of Totalmix software loopback function then your EQ can be added to the signal

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  • rpnfan
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

Isnt't the whole point of loopback not to need a cable? I also do not have an ADAT interface I could use for that, but would need the in-the-box-loopback. But if I read between the lines it is not possible to achieve what I want with Totalmix (with a Babyface Pro)!?

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

rpnfan wrote:

Isnt't the whole point of loopback not to need a cable? I also do not have an ADAT interface I could use for that, but would need the in-the-box-loopback. But if I read between the lines it is not possible to achieve what I want with Totalmix (with a Babyface Pro)!?

Loopback is primarily meant for recording the output mix or to send it to another software. The signal which is looped back to an input is not available in Totalmix again. But I have another idea: you could use your DAW and the integrated software monitoring function which lets go the signal to another software playback channel in Totalmix and from there of course to a hardware output.

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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

oli77sch wrote:

Loopback is primarily meant for recording the output mix or to send it to another software. The signal which is looped back to an input is not available in Totalmix again.

Thanks a lot. Very helpful answer. That would be a perfect introduction for in the manual as well.

Thanks also for the suggested workaround with another program.

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

rpnfan wrote:
oli77sch wrote:

Loopback is primarily meant for recording the output mix or to send it to another software. The signal which is looped back to an input is not available in Totalmix again.

Thanks a lot. Very helpful answer. That would be a perfect introduction for in the manual as well.

Thanks also for the suggested workaround with another program.

I just messed around a bit. It’s not that easy to get that because the EQ on the loopback input channel doesn’t affect the loopback signal, but the signal from the hardware input. And to go further with my idea to integrate the DAW, of course you also can load an eq plugin there.
…

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

20 Reply by MC

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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

rpnfan wrote:

Unfortunately I can not read a block diagram. I tried enabling EQ for record, but that did not change anything. I am still not sure if/ how it is possible to apply an EQ for a S/W playback channel.

So you can not see in the diagram what is also clearly stated in the text - that you have to use the OUTPUT EQ when Loopback is active?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

21 Reply by MC

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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

rpnfan wrote:
oli77sch wrote:

Loopback is primarily meant for recording the output mix or to send it to another software. The signal which is looped back to an input is not available in Totalmix again.

Thanks a lot. Very helpful answer. That would be a perfect introduction for in the manual as well.

Manual quote, first paragraph:

TotalMix includes an internal loopback function, from the Hardware Outputs to the recording software. Instead of the signal at the hardware input, the signal at the hardware output is sent to the record software. This way, submixes can be recorded without an external loopback cable. Also the playback from a software can be recorded by another software.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • rpnfan
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Re: How to get EQ and compression on software playback channel?

MC wrote:
rpnfan wrote:
oli77sch wrote:

Loopback is primarily meant for recording the output mix or to send it to another software. The signal which is looped back to an input is not available in Totalmix again.

Thanks a lot. Very helpful answer. That would be a perfect introduction for in the manual as well.

Manual quote, first paragraph:

TotalMix includes an internal loopback function, from the Hardware Outputs to the recording software. Instead of the signal at the hardware input, the signal at the hardware output is sent to the record software. This way, submixes can be recorded without an external loopback cable. Also the playback from a software can be recorded by another software.

The crucial added sentence is "The signal which is looped back to an input is not available in Totalmix again." which was not clear to me from the manual and also not from the block diagram. I think that would be a great addition in the manual to clarify the limitations of the loopback function.

MC wrote:
rpnfan wrote:

Unfortunately I can not read a block diagram. I tried enabling EQ for record, but that did not change anything. I am still not sure if/ how it is possible to apply an EQ for a S/W playback channel.

So you can not see in the diagram what is also clearly stated in the text - that you have to use the OUTPUT EQ when Loopback is active?

I do not understand why that is relevant to my question at all, when for Totalmix a loopback signal is not accessible!? That was what I wanted for my specific use case. That OUTPUT EQ needs to be enabled would _then_ be the second part, which surely I understand.

But I do not fully understand the block diagram like already stated. If we would have a look together that would be surely explained very easily and quick, but for me several things are not self-explaining. I have a pretty good scientific understanding and logic thinking, but absolutely no experience with that type of diagrams.  [1]

Why is it so hard for you to understand that some RME users have a very different background to yours and therefore some things are not evident to them!?

[1] For example when loopback is on (like shown on page 67) the signal does never be able to reach HW INPUT, so seems always disconnected. I now think that HW input is not only the square (top left), but the complete left half of the diagram!? But for me it is not self-explaining where the "scope" of the HW INPUT is in that graph. I could imagine a transparent layer (for example in light gray) to mark that clearly, but because that is not implemented it seems not to be needed!?

Also it seems that from the HW OUTPUT Channel 1 (bottom right) the signal now can go through the EQ, but the figure states that EQ for Record would be OFF. I do not understand the logic here. Or is that an error and should read HW OUTPUT EQ ON?

It would be great if you would not imply that your customers are dumb, just because questions are open. Dumb is only when you are not thinking for yourself and one just swallows and repeats what someone else says. Not understanding (yet) why or how something works is part of the learning process!