1 Topic by SFil (edited by SFil 2021-02-21 12:21:59)

  • SFil
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Topic: Snapshots and Mic Gains

Hello all,

I have a question about the snapshot's possibilities.
I'm about to buy some Fireface UC and ARC USB to renew the equipment of speak recording configurations.

I know some of the RME Interfaces. I own a Fireface 800 and a Fireface 400 since a lot of time, so I'm used to Totalmix. What is new with the UC is that Totalmix is controlling the Mic Gain. I think this is the source of my problem.


I would like to have this input/output configuration :
Mic 1 : Vocal booth mic
Mic 2 : Talkback mic
Output 1-2 : Speakers Out
Output 3-4 : Line out, connected to a headphones amplifier, in the vocal booth
Output 7-8 : Default phones output, in front of the Fireface, for the operator



I would like to configure the ARC USB to recall two snapshots :
Snapshot 1 : Op and artist are hearing the same thing, DAW Output 1-2 is routed to Output 1-2, Output 3-4 and Output 7-8
Snapshot 2 : Op and artist are not hearing the same thing, DAW Output 1-2 is routed to Output 1-2 and 7-8, Daw Output 3-4 is routed to Output 3-4

Doing this is very simple, as far as I know, but since Totalmix is controlling the Mic Gain, here comes the problem :
If I switch between Snapshot 1 and 2, the mic gain is resetting... (I would like to use the Mic Pre 2 for the talkback, but this is not a problem, I can set the gain equally between snapshot 1 and snapshot 2).



I thought about many solutions :

1) Downgrade Fireface Firmware to an older one, when the gain settings were in Fireface Setup and not in TotalMix
Pros : I can switch between snapshot 1 and 2 without changing the mic gain
Cons : I cannot use the ARC USB to control the mic gain

2) Use two separates output for artist headphones output
Pros : I don't have to switch between snapshots anymore. I can use the ARC USB to control the mic gain.
Cons : I have to physically unplug and replug the headphones to hear a different source in the vocal booth

3) Don't use the integrated Mic Pre.
Pros : I can switch between headphones sources without changing the gain.
Cons : One mic pre is not in use, and ARC USB has one fonction less

4) Change for another monitor controller, with a headphones source
I don't want that. The abilitty to reset Totalmix to a saved state is a clear benefit, so I can reset the configuration between two operators, and even reset it with network remote control.



So, I have now two questions :
- I know that there is some recall safe options when selecting a snapshot. I didn't saw Mic Gains. Is there an option elsewhere for this ?
- Which solution would you chose, if the answer to question one is "no" ?

Thanks a lot for reading, and maybe answering,

Simon

Setup 1 : OS X - Fireface 800
Setup 2 : OS X - Fireface 400

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2021-02-21 12:31:25)

  • waedi
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

I am very sorry for not understanding your problem fully.
If I switch between Snapshot 1 and 2, the mic gain is resetting...
Resetting how ? To zero?
All the way down to silence ?
All the way up too loud ?

I can set the gain equally between snapshot 1 and snapshot 2
Yes, you set the mic gain and there it is.
Setting the mic gain at same value in both snapshots lets you toggle between the two snapshots and the mic gain keeps its position. Or not ?

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • SFil
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

Sorry, I'll be more precise :

waedi wrote:

I am very sorry for not understanding your problem fully.
If I switch between Snapshot 1 and 2, the mic gain is resetting...
Resetting how ? To zero?
All the way down to silence ?
All the way up too loud ?

If I switch between Snapshot 1 and 2, the gain is "resetting" to the saved state in the other snapshot

If I begin to work with snapshot 2, artist and operator are not hearing the same thing.
I set the mic gain, and begin the recording session.
At a time, the artist wants to hear his vocal in the real mix, so, I switch to snapshot 1. At this moment, operator and artist are hearing the same thing, but the mic gain is resetting to the saved state in snapshot 1, so, I have to set it again.

waedi wrote:

I can set the gain equally between snapshot 1 and snapshot 2
Yes, you set the mic gain and there it is.
Setting the mic gain at same value in both snapshots lets you toggle between the two snapshots and the mic gain keeps its position. Or not ?

This is OK for the talkback Mic, plugged in Mic in 2. I can save the two snapshots with phantom power and gain correctly set. But, the Mic 1, where is connected the recorded mic, can't be set by default

Setup 1 : OS X - Fireface 800
Setup 2 : OS X - Fireface 400
  • SFil
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

I just thinked about something...
I can't simply switch between Snapshot 1 and 2, back and forth. I have to save snapshot 1 before enabling snapshot 2, in order to go back to snapshot 1 at the state it was before pushing snapshot 2.

So, I think I can't use the Mic Pre 1 with a variable gain and just switch between two headphones configurations.

(Sorry, I'm not english, it's sometime a little bit difficult)

Setup 1 : OS X - Fireface 800
Setup 2 : OS X - Fireface 400
  • ramses
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

Good workaround. You could even do this additionally:

Save the whole snapshopt/workspaces in 1 of the 30 Quick Workspace Select slots.

Then you can restore everything (snapshots and workspace settings) in one sweep by pressing .e.g. ALT-1 (if you saved to the 1st slot). Then any changes which you got during a longer session are away and you have again the initial settings unmodified.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • waedi
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

Ah I see.
You want to toggle between the two snapshots during your work and in the same time you want to play around with the mic gain for making adjustments in time. But then you toggle the snapshot and there is the old mic gain setting and you don't like it anymore as you have changed it.

Your workflow is not that good.
A mic gain is set once and then it should be there without changing it all the time.
The speaker must speak a very loud part and you set the gain to where the signal is just before clipping.
For correcting loudness during the show a compressor is the thing to use.
Set up an insert plugin compressor in the DAW.
Or prepare the speaker for keeping the same loudness during the recording.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • SFil
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

ramses wrote:

Good workaround. You could even do this additionally:

Save the whole snapshopt/workspaces in 1 of the 30 Quick Workspace Select slots.

Then you can restore everything (snapshots and workspace settings) in one sweep by pressing .e.g. ALT-1 (if you saved to the 1st slot). Then any changes which you got during a longer session are away and you have again the initial settings unmodified.

Thanks for this good idea !
I can do like this between two sessions, and save a file somewhere in the computer, where all those settings are stored (I thought about this initially, I didn't know about quick workspaces)

Setup 1 : OS X - Fireface 800
Setup 2 : OS X - Fireface 400
  • SFil
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

waedi wrote:

Ah I see.
You want to toggle between the two snapshots during your work and in the same time you want to play around with the mic gain for making adjustments in time. But then you toggle the snapshot and there is the old mic gain setting and you don't like it anymore as you have changed it.

Your workflow is not that good.
A mic gain is set once and then it should be there without changing it all the time.
The speaker must speak a very loud part and you set the gain to where the signal is just before clipping.
For correcting loudness during the show a compressor is the thing to use.
Set up an insert plugin compressor in the DAW.
Or prepare the speaker for keeping the same loudness during the recording.

That's right !
As for the second part of your message. I don't want to change the mic gain all the time. But, if I want to work with snapshot 1 and 2 back and forth, I think I have to set the gain in snapshot 1, save snapshot 1, go to snapshot 2, set the gain, save snapshot 2, go back to 1.

I know, this is simple, but, having a button acting as a "source select" for the headphones, without changing the gain configuration, will be simple (for the user point of view)

Setup 1 : OS X - Fireface 800
Setup 2 : OS X - Fireface 400
  • SFil
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

Found a solution !! (I think)

I was wrong trying to find a solution with snapshots.
I played with my FF400, and found this :
Solo Group 1 : DAW 1-2 only in vocal booth's headphones out
Solo Group 2 : DAW 3-4 only in vocal booth's headphones out

No snapshot, no gain recall.

As ramses said, I saved it in a quick workspace setting. I did Option -> Reset Mix -> Total Reset, then, reload my workspace to see if all the settings are correctly recalled. It's ok !

So, I think it's good for me.
Thanks for all !

Last thing, very optional : In the settings, there is an option for exclusive solo. But this option does nothing with solo groups : I can cumulate Solo Group 1&2. Is there a way to extend this option to solo groups ?

Setup 1 : OS X - Fireface 800
Setup 2 : OS X - Fireface 400
  • ramses
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

BTW .. quick workspace is a combination of
- save snapshot
- save workspace
Simply to a fix file, therefore the 30 fix positions. Not to a file with name and location of your choice.
Therefore it restores all even if you reset the mix.
But you should save your settings additionally in Snapshot and Workspace files separately.
If you would setup your system from scratch, then you can reload both from a backup....

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • SFil
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

You're right !
I didn't know about Quick Workspace, so I thought about saving the configuration in a file.
But what you said is smarter. Quick Workspace between sessions and load a file for restorung from scratch.

Thanks !

Setup 1 : OS X - Fireface 800
Setup 2 : OS X - Fireface 400
  • ramses
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Re: Snapshots and Mic Gains

You're welcome wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13