Topic: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

Being new (almost one year) to the RME family with a BBF I was wondering if it would be a good idea to get a pci RME for my desktop computer.
But knowing literally nothing could someone be kind enough to advise on that?
1. What is the minimum I have to buy?
2. Do these work with win 10?
3. Are there advantages over usb or is it a waste of time and money?

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 10.5 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, Steinberg CC121

2 (edited by ramses 2021-03-02 16:21:03)

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

With RME the "performance" differences between PCI/PCIe/TB and USB/FW are not that big. All RME drivers are written very efficiently and RME does not use third party communication chips on their recording interfaces. RME does everything themselves in their FPGAs. FPGAs are simply said "programmable CPUs" that can be reprogrammed via firmware upgrade regarding bug fixes and feature upgrades. So USB has about the same "performance" as PCI/PCIe/TB.

I checked this myself comparing a PCIe interface (RayDAT) with an UFX+ (USB3) with a very big Cubase Project with 400 tracks and over 800 VSTi (not that I have such large project, I used it as kind of application benchmark for me.
The result was, that there was no real visible difference in "performance", with smallest ASIO buffer sizes and even at double speed (96 kHz):
- about the same CPU load (so the USB Recording interface worked as efficient as the PCIe interface)
- about the same RTL (Round Trip Latency)
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … cks-de-en/

Additionally you can look at this overview of RTL latencies for example (the snapshot from an Excel), quite similar between the different solutions: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/

While you say PCI, you do realize that there are hardly any mainboards with PCI bus anymore ? If you plan to buy such a card, then I would strongly recommend you to get a current PCIe based card.

But I would generally recommend, that you choose a recording interface based on features and supported ports.
For USB/FW/TB cards I put together some interesting information (except PCI/PCIe cards):
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … B-MADIfac/
Direct Link to Excel: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 0-08-xlsx/

With PCI/PCIe cards you always have to take into account that you have to deal with breakout cables for many connection types. If you then stumble over something like that, it happens faster that you tear something out. Or if you have pets, such special breakout cables cost just more, than a USB or XLR cable. Or if you want e.g. to have DURec .. not available for PCI/PCIe cards, same with Mic Preamps. Or if you want FX effects, some USB recording interfaces have a FX chip built-in, but not all. If you look at the cards, then only the biggest MADI card has a FX chip..

No RME device is a waste of time or money...

But I ask myself, what is the concrete question / demand behind your posting ? Nice "intro", but for what purpose ?

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9734), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

when I say pci I mean the general term pci. I know that now everything is pcie.
I was thinking of a HDSP 9632.
I you remember my thoughts about a second card to utilize both my laptop and my desktop (one being the BBF) instead of getting a more expensive UC or UCX I could get a pcie card, which has expandability etc.
I don't have problems with breakout cables, they will be out of reach.

My very simple or naive idea is ...a HDSP 9632 costs less than a UC or UCX. If we put aside that it is not portable or ready with i/o etc, since it is directly on the pcie bus would it be more fuss free than a usb card?

Just thinking...

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 10.5 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, Steinberg CC121

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

HDSP9632 is PCI not PCIe. The AIO is the PCIe version.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

vinark wrote:

HDSP9632 is PCI not PCIe. The AIO is the PCIe version.

and now AIO pro....

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 10.5 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, Steinberg CC121

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

You can, also, consider the RayDat! You 'll need external AD/DA, though!
You can use it with your BF Pro FS in Stand-alone mode or connected to your laptop, for AD/DA!

7 (edited by ramses 2021-03-02 23:15:08)

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

d.panagiotidis wrote:

when I say pci I mean the general term pci.

I do not want to split hairs, but PCI is not the generic term for the two very different bus types PCI and PCIe.
If you mean PCI, please say PCI. If you mean PCIe, say PCIe.

d.panagiotidis wrote:

My very simple or naive idea is ...a HDSP 9632 costs less than a UC or UCX.

You need to compare the features.
When I proposed the UC on the 2nd pc, then the idea was, that maybe the analog ports on the UC would be sufficient for
a) routing e.g. two Mic ports through ADAT to the other PC
b) to be used as Interface on the 2nd PC
And it would make it even possible to use BBF Pro and UC on the same computer and DAW could access both interfaces, because they use the same ASIO driver.

The UC is at the end of the day not much more expensive, because if you get a HDSP 9632, then you need this PCI card and an ADA8200. Then the HDSP 9632 has no separate monitor/phones settings in TM FX. I personally do not like this, I want to be able to adjust both separately and store this in snapshots. As MC told not too long ago, the card is quite old, at that time this design was ok.

If the amount of analog ports would be sufficient I think you were far better of with the combination of BBF Pro and UC.

d.panagiotidis wrote:

If we put aside that it is not portable or ready with i/o etc, since it is directly on the pcie bus would it be more fuss free than a usb card?

No. You can also have also issues with PCI/PCIe cards with noise coming from e.g. the computers PSU.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9734), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

ramses wrote:

...

No RME device is a waste of time or money...

...

I can corroborate that. I have had the same HDSP9632 PCI card since they were new, I guess nearing 20 years now, I've lost count. This has been the one and only computer related investment that I've made that's got a lifespan comparable to hardware audio equipment. If I ever need a new interface, I will surely buy RME. They still update their drivers for this card, which is amazing, really.

The only hassle is that whenever I build a new pc every 5-6 years, I will try to find a good motherboard with at least one PCI slot. So far, this has not been a problem.

/Magnus

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

ramses wrote:
d.panagiotidis wrote:

when I say pci I mean the general term pci.

I do not want to split hairs, but PCI is not the generic term for the two very different bus types PCI and PCIe.
If you mean PCI, please say PCI. If you mean PCIe, say PCIe.

d.panagiotidis wrote:

My very simple or naive idea is ...a HDSP 9632 costs less than a UC or UCX.

You need to compare the features.
When I proposed the UC on the 2nd pc, then the idea was, that maybe the analog ports on the UC would be sufficient for
a) routing e.g. two Mic ports through ADAT to the other PC
b) to be used as Interface on the 2nd PC
And it would make it even possible to use BBF Pro and UC on the same computer and DAW could access both interfaces, because they use the same ASIO driver.

The UC is at the end of the day not much more expensive, because if you get a HDSP 9632, then you need this PCI card and an ADA8200. Then the HDSP 9632 has no separate monitor/phones settings in TM FX. I personally do not like this, I want to be able to adjust both separately and store this in snapshots. As MC told not too long ago, the card is quite old, at that time this design was ok.

If the amount of analog ports would be sufficient I think you were far better of with the combination of BBF Pro and UC.

d.panagiotidis wrote:

If we put aside that it is not portable or ready with i/o etc, since it is directly on the pcie bus would it be more fuss free than a usb card?

No. You can also have also issues with PCI/PCIe cards with noise coming from e.g. the computers PSU.

you made yourself quite clear

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 10.5 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, Steinberg CC121

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

No noise with RayDat. No bridge since it's PCI-E. Best latency or get the new AIO Pro wink Optical cables are cheap. Get a great RME DAC of choice and you're good to go. USB performance is as stated awesome as well, but has the obviuous drawbacks and benefits of being USB.

11 (edited by torbenscharling 2021-03-04 16:49:14)

Re: Is it a good idea to go pci ?

Also, the BabyFace (non pro) min 48samples, raydat min 32samples buffer..this is on windows 10. I'm running the BabyFace (non pro) on my mac via ADAT out to my RayDat Pc works great! Also got an ADI-2 (original) hooked up via ADAT, works great too, and sounds even better actually smile