Topic: 2x 12mic control over network (http)

Hi everybody,

knowing that a Auxdevice support (over MADI) is in work I try to control my 2 12mic units over a network with a wifi router in the meantime.
It worked once yesterday but unfortunately today the 12mics doesn't show any ip adresses.
I would be very thankfull for any help!!

best wishes,

Piotr

2 (edited by ramses 2021-03-05 19:30:53)

Re: 2x 12mic control over network (http)

I also experienced problems with a Fritzbox 7590. Some chipsets might have issues. If I remember right it helped to disconnect and reconnect the network cable on the 12Mic side after all devices were powered up. But ofc it was not a good solution having to unplug/replug each time after power-cycle.

After getting a Gigabit Switch all these problems were gone.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9734), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

Re: 2x 12mic control over network (http)

Thanks a lot. I will try it and post my experience.
I need a wifi connection, I don't know if there are switches with wifi and if a router and a switch are the same thing :-), sorry.
I have a simple TP-Link switch here and it works fine. But there is no wifi. Could you comment on this as well?

4 (edited by ramses 2021-03-06 11:17:31)

Re: 2x 12mic control over network (http)

I think a WLAN / network tutorial would go beyond the scope of this forum to give you a good consulting.
Depending on the local conditions (size and location of rooms, number of clients (cabled, WLAN), position of central network/internet equipment, thickness of walls, etc) its not possible to give you now a quick advice like, "take this and your are done".
Therefore, I prefer to limit myself to the most essential things you should pay attention to when implementing a network, whether with wireless components or not.

First of all about WLAN: as nice as a WLAN based solution is sometimes, it is unfortunately also afflicted with many problems that are not obvious to a layman at first.

WLAN is a so-called "shared medium" where only one device is allowed to talk and when talkink it can only send or transmit (half-duplex). In contrast to that if you connect a PC to a switch, then you have a) higher bandwidth (1 Gbit) b) bandwidth not inflicted by other surrounding conditions c) PC and switch can send and transceive with 1 Gbit throughput at the same time (why certain marketing folks tried to sell this as a 2 Gbit connection *errmmm* ...).

The whole thing is complicated by the following: 1. in some frequency bands, overlaps with other devices transmitting on the same frequency (microwave, ..) 2. neighboring installations using the same frequencies, 3. increasing number of broadcasts, the more devices transmit on the WLAN.

The manufacturers shine with high net bandwidths, yes, and the devices have meanwhile several antennas, there is MIMO transfer technology in place in certain cases (also complicated, depends also on a WLAN clients capabilities), etc etc to get the whole thing perhaps even more performant. But depending on the local conditions (area, thickness of walls, external influences), the whole issue is still not easy to handle !!!

In other words .. in terms of bandwidth / throughput / latency the use of WLAN repeaters is not unproblematic due to "shared media" (only one can talk) and the "walkie talkie" type of transmission (half-duplex), which can cause problems, e.g. when streaming 4k content.

In my opinion, the latest WLAN "mesh technologies" do not solve the basic problem of half-duplex transmission and the external influences that reduce WLAN throughput and increase latency. On the contrary, Mesh is in my opinion a "material battle" with (more expensive) pseudo intelligent devices that are supposed to find the optimal path in your Mesh WLAN, but in the end - if you have bad conditions (due to placement needs) - it will result in a "chain of WLAN repeaters" ("walkie talkie connections") with the end result of an even higher overall latency. Multiple Mesh devices also suffer from "shared media" "half duplex" problematic, like a single (less expensive) WLAN repeater. Now you have only more of these devices and in a bad case only more of these devices in the communication path from an "end-to-end" perspective:
WLAN client - Mesh AP1 - Mesh AP2 - .. - Switch - WLAN/DSL Router (Mesh Master).

It's best to read up on the subject and get good advice.

IF WLAN, then you might be better served with the classic approach of connecting each WLAN AP (access point) via cable (Gigabit full-duplex connections) to a central or decentralized switch.

Still ideal: cabled connections to one or more switches

Maybe place one more switch at another central position for another few rooms.
Setup Example: to illustrate what I mean

                                Central NAS (Backup, Streaming, other Services, maybe even NAS redundancy)
                                           |
                                           | Note: 10G is better here as it gives all NAS clients 10 Gbps compared to Link Aggregation
                                           | (802.3ad/802.1AX) e.g. 2x 1Gbps, where packets are not load balanced between 2 Gbit links
                                           |
Internet / Main Router / Switch #1 ----------------- Room1: Client 1..n
                                        |   |
                                        |   | (Gbit copper or fiber; 10G still more expensive...)
                                        |   |
                                        |   Switch #2 ------------------ Room2+3: Client 1..n
                                        |
                                        (AVB-) Switch #3 --------------------- Room4+5: Client 1..n (option: with support for AVB)

Note: if you want to be future proof/ready it might be worth to implement AVB switches there, where AVB components might be placed, e.g. if you have rooms for recording / monitoring. If your recording infrastructure is distributed between recording and monitoring room, then you might need to implement more than 1 AVB switch and all switches between AVB equipment need to support AVB. With MADI you do not need to pay attention to that, you have then a dedicated cabling infrastructure for audio.

To make it more scaleable for more clients you can even split the network into different "broadcast domains" (Layer-2 term) by introducing VLANs and route between them with a router or by using a Layer-3 Switch. Hint: Layer-2 forwarding is faster as a typical L2-Switch does not need to look to the higher layers of a network packet, this goes simply quicker in terms of processing.

Perhaps the requirements for remote control of the 12Mic over a network are not quite as high as with a 4k video stream, but please also think about the peak display of all 12Mic inputs, depending on the latency that comes together over one or more WLAN repeater/mesh routes, I could imagine that the display is then perhaps not as delay-free as you would like. Nothing really works over cable ... that's where you have the least problems. Depending on the circumstances, you can still consider connecting switches to each other either with copper or fiber.

Also think about this .. if Auxdevice support will come, then you will have the peak display of 12Mic inputs also through TotalMix FX .. so for simple administrative purposes you can also try a WLAN repeater, but if this creates problems .. you know now why potentially .... (Shared Media, Half-Duplex, etc).

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9734), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE