Topic: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Hi all,

I'm using RME audio hardware since 20 years now, and I just encountered a rare occasion of an unexplained issue.

I have two HDSPe cards in one DAW - one AES and one MADI (non-FX). All of a sudden these cards are seen in a different order by Nuendo 11, with the disastrous result that my whole Auro-3D monitoring setup (plus the inserts in Nuendo's "Control Room"!!) got lost. To add insult to injury - I can't set back the order seen by Nuendo any more (see screenshot):

Nuendo + RME Driver

What can I do to fix the issue, and how can I avoid that it happens again?

System:

Windows 10
Nuendo 11.0.10
RME Driver 4.36

TIA!

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

PS: The preset of the lost setup shows the connections as "Missing" (see screenshot):

Lost Setup

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

PPS: Other applications like RX advanced show the same wrong output-order now, although the driver setting says differently:

iZotope RX Adv. Prefs

4

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

You tried to change the card order on the Global tab?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Hi Matthias,

what an honour! :-) You were the one who introduced me to RME hardware during a trade-show of the last millennium. Thanks for taking care!

I just tried to counter-intuitively change the order in the Global-tab, which in facts makes Nuendo "see" the cards in a different order again, but still all the settings created for this system aren't valid anymore (see screenshot):

Changed Card Order

Looks strange, if you ask me ... 8-/

TIA for any info!

/Dietz

6 (edited by DietzTinhof 2021-03-16 14:48:57)

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Update: The issue seems to be even more complicated than I thought: Even if I manually re-route the outputs the "new", re-ordered ports there's no signal coming from the AES-card, it seems. ... 8-0

I see it arriving in the TotalMix' channel meters, but there's no audio from the AES outputs arriving in the D/A converters.

EDIT: DigiCheck receives audio from the MADI card when the AES card is selected as source.

7

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

I am confused. You need the AES card to be the first ASIO device? But your screenshot shows that you 'sorted' the MADI card as first. After Apply restart the ASIO host.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

8 (edited by DietzTinhof 2021-03-16 17:34:08)

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Well, I'm confused too. :-)

The driver settings in my very first screenshot show the intended (and previously working) setup: AES = 1, MADI = 2. But all of a sudden, this order hasn't been "seen" properly any more - hence my initial posting.

Following your suggestion I changed the order of cards in the "Global" tab. Nuendo (and other apps) now "see" AES card as the first one (indicated by the number between the brackets), although the driver lists it as second one.

No audio is coming out of the AES card anymore now (... that's the new aspect of the issue).

Of course I restarted the system after each attempt to change the situation for the better.

Thanks for your help,

/Dietz

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

PS: It seems as it is a hardware-problem rather than a settings issue. This DAW is a dual-boot hybrid, so I'm able to use OS-X with the very same hardware. ProTools sees both cards as expected, but like under Windows there's no sound produced by the AES card, just by the MADI card.

Strangely enough the TotalMix loop-back of the AES-card that feeds DigiCheck NG works as expected.

... seems as there's something broken on the physical output-side of that card.

10

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Then remove the MADI card and do a simple I/O test of the AES card alone. Also remove both and clean their golden bus contacts carefully with a rubber eraser. Sometimes this is already enough.

The Sort order clearly only refers to ASIO, so the indicated order in system or the Settings tab does not change. Using WDM therefore nothing would change at all.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Thanks for your help, Matthias.

I followed your advice thoroughly, although I didn't completely understand the "WDM"-part of your message.

In fact, both cards are now working again, so it may indeed have been a hardware issue that caused the initial problem. But the order of the cards shown by the ASIO driver is still reversed. Is there any way (for mere mortals like me) to fix this?

12

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Ääähm - Change Card Order on Global Tab?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

That's exactly the problem: Global tab's card order says "AES = (1), MADI = (2). Still the ASIO driver as seen by applications like RX or Nuendo reads: "AES = (2), MADI = (1)".

14

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

But then you can simply reset/re-assign all I/Os and it would work with your project correctly? I did not expect the number behind as relevant, though.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

15 (edited by DietzTinhof 2021-03-17 15:06:10)

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

The device number in the brackets is crucial for ASIO applications, it seems. Nuendo's routing relies on it entirely, for example. All existing projects will open without (or with erratical) output routing.

Of course I could re-route everything now, but this is a no-no in case of more complex setups (hardware I/Os, for example) ---- and what if this order changes out of nothing _again_?

Re: "Reset all I/Os": That's part of the problem: It just doesn't get reset, at least not the part that's seen by the ASIO applications. I just had an hour-long TeamViewer-session with my system assembler, but neither him nor I can find the place where this info got stored. Maybe the file is write-protected, somehow? (I do all of this with Administrator rights).

... I'm sure _you_ know where Windows stores this data, don't you?

TIA,

/Dietz

16

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

This data is not editable AFAIK. What you could try is:

- remove the cards, put card number 1 (AES in), then card number two (MADI).

- exchange the cards in their slots

Of course that doesn't explain why they change their numbering in the first place. This could have been caused by a Windows, BIOS or motherboard driver update. Windows assigns these numbers with specific rules, like numbering of the PCIe slots from the motherboard up to the serial number of the device. The method also changed over all the Windows versions, so I am not sure what the current method is.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

17 (edited by DietzTinhof 2021-03-17 15:05:45)

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Huh! 8-/

I already removed and re-inserted both cards, I re-installed the drivers - still nothing changed in the way how the cards are presented within the ASIO applications. If there's just one of the two, there's no additional numbering in brackets shown. As soon as there are both the numbering is there, and since two days it's wrong.

I can't easily swap the slots on the MoBo, but I'll keep that in mind as last resort.

Is this something Steinberg people should know about (after all, only the ASIO-side of things is concerned)? Or is this purely a Microsoft issue? ... but everything is fine in Windows itself.

TIA,

/Dietz

18 (edited by DietzTinhof 2021-03-17 17:28:00)

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Ok, this seriously is botched.

I thought that I should simply surrender and tried to set up a new output routing for Nuendo with the new, "wrong" card order - just to realize that now DigiCheck doesn't "hear" the cards' outputs anymore:

 Dead DigiCheck

.. how could this possibly go wrong?!?

UPDATE: A complete re-install of DigiCheck didn't help.

19

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Steinberg might need the number to identify multiple identical cards, but as our driver integrates these into one I am not sure this is really needed.

DC Playback (and maybe more) is not (yet) compatible to the manually changed card order, so if you need that you should reverse the swap in the Global tap.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Multi-card setup: Nuendo sees different order than shown by driver

Thanks for your time, Matthias. I think we still don't talk about the same issue ("Wir reden aneinander vorbei."), as I didn't change _anything_ manually, except by using the driver's Global Tab - like you suggested.

Anyway, I rest my case. I will get rid of the AES card and stick to a single MADI card. Three days of futile rescue attempts of a previously working setup are enough, I'd say. 8-/

It seems that I have to re-do every routing-related setting in all of my existing projects in any case, so I can very well start from zero with a completely new concept. After all, the multi-card system had mostly historical reasons to begin with. I never encountered any severe problems related to RME-cards before, but apparently that's different under Windows 10.

Lesson learned.

Thanks again & kind regards,

/Dietz