1 (edited by Sonic Reducer 2021-03-26 19:20:06)

Topic: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Hi,

Im trying to integrate an external hardware effect via Logic's I/O plug-in but I've reached a dead end...

I have an Fireface UFX interface with an Octopre MK2 Dynamic connected via ADAT (both ADAT in and ADAT out are cabled between the two devices)

The effect (Alesis Quadraverb) has its input (ADAT 15/16) and output (ADAT 9/10) cables going into the Octopre MK2 Dynamic.

When I press a key I can see in TotalMix that there is an output signal but no input signal (screen shot attached).

If I connect the effect to a stereo in and stereo out of the UFX the effect works perfectly.

One thing ive noticed though, it if I turn the Quadraverb on and of I can see a signal briefly jump into the 9/10 input.

I can also use synths via the Dynamic fine.

Im wondering if its an ADAT issue, a problem with the I/O or the routing in TotalMix

Any help would be gratefully accepted as it draining me a bit nuts.

Thanks in advance.

Is it possible to upload screen shots here? I can't see how I would do it.

* Screen shots of the set up are attached. One shows the routing that isn't working, with the I/O. One shows the routing that works (via the UFX). Fireface settings also attached.

Screen shots can be viewed here:

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/view … p;t=156449

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

1. You can upoload screenshots on imgur.com and copy the bbcode which you can paste in your post.

2. Make sure you have set your optical out to ADAT instead of S/PDIF in Settings. I don't know if UFX have that option, mine does and ADAT and S/PDIF are using the same connector.

3 (edited by waedi 2021-03-26 19:34:14)

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

What are your USB Fireface settings ?
Clock-mode internal ?
Digital setting adat or spdif ? Set it adat.
What is the sample rate in this settings program and what is selected in Logic ?
Are there any settings on this Octopre, some dip switches ? Sample rate settings ?
If your sample rate is 96 or higher then the adat channels are only 4 not 8, then the channels 15/16 no longer exist.
You can see the outgoing signal in Totalmix but no return on adat 15/16.
I guess this is the case here in one device or software.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

4 (edited by Sonic Reducer 2021-03-26 19:44:53)

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Hi both,



Thanks for the reply.

what are your USB Fireface settings ?


Clock-mode internal ?

internal

digital setting adat or spdif ? Set it adat.

adat

What is the sample rate in this settings program and what is selected in Logic ?

48

are there any settings on this Octopre, some dip switches ? sample rate settings ?

48 on Octpre


If your sample rate is 96 or higher then the adat channels are only 4 not 8, then the channels 15/16 no longer exist.

You can see the outgoing signal in Totalmix but no return on adat 15/16.

yeah, that's right



The rest of my set up is fine, everything is clocked correctly, numerous synths etc work fine. but as soon as I try and use an external effect connected via an interface (eg Octopre) via adat I get get no input signal.


Ive also just bought a Ferrofish and Digiface. Ive unplugged everything else and just have these two connected to my iMac in Logic. Ive connected an external effect to the Ferrofish and hooked it up via Logic's I/0, but I'm getting exactly the same issue- no input signal is hitting the Ferrofish.

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Is there a input LED showing signal input on the Octopre ?
Is the input on, the gain knob open? let's say 12 o clock position ?
Other inputs works ? 13/14 ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

No signal is showing on the Octopre

Yeah, its set at 12

I have a couple of synths also plugged in into the Octopre and they work fine.

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Can you do a test ?
Disconnect the Erica and connect there one of the synths ?
Is then signal arriving Logic ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Just connected one, synth works fine, with signal showing on Octopre

9 (edited by Sonic Reducer 2021-03-26 20:54:51)

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

all input channels on the Octopre are working fine via adat, tested all of them with a synth, just not with an effect loop via logic i/o

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

I am lost.
We must go back to the roots.
What exactly is the issue ?
When all adat channels works fine then the effect unit also receives the signal and sends back the effect signal.
Logic output and input have to be selected and Totalmix is the place to watch all signals incoming and outgoing.
And then also a total reset in Totalmix could help in case you did mess in Totalmix...?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

11 (edited by Sonic Reducer 2021-03-26 21:47:23)

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Ok, right, sorry for the confusion. Ill try and simplify.

The Octopre is connected to the UFX by ADAT (ADAT in and ADAT out)

An external stereo analog hardware effect is plugged into the Octopre (Input ADAT 15/16, Output ADAT 9/10).

Logic's I/O utility is being used on a Logic channel strip to try and access the effect (connected via the above ADAT input/ouput)

No input signal is entering the I/O plug -in though and no input signal is showing up in either TotalMix or on the Octopre.

However, when a synth is plugged into any of the inputs on the Octopre the synth works perfectly. This was tested on all of the Octopre inputs channels to make sure they were working properly.

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

weird that it works fine with a synth plug in though and shows a signal

When I turn the effect on and off and it show a burst of a signal, on both on the octopre and in totalmix

13 (edited by ramses 2021-03-28 10:21:45)

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

@Sonic Reducer: I looked to your two screenshots from your 1st posting (https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/view … p;t=156449)

Your 1st screenshot shows the submix for the relevant HW Output ADAT 9/10. These channels are the first two of UFX's ADAT2 port. So this should match with the first two analog outputs of the Octopre which should be connected to the Alesis Quadraverb's analog inputs. Did I understand the cabling correctly ?

Sadly your 1st screenshot shows no audio signals, but at least we can see clearly, that you only route audio
from DAW/SW Playback Channel ADAT9/10 (middle row) to the submix of HW Output ADAT9/10 (bottom row).
You see ?! Only the fader of this channel is raised at 0dB, all other faders of top/middle row are down.

If you look now to the 2nd screenshot you sadly didn't select the proper submix for HW Output ADAT9/10.
But we know the routing from the 1st screenshot.
In this 2nd screenshot we see audio on various HW Inputs (top row) and SW Playback Channels (middle row),
but NONE of these channels with audio are being routed to HW Output ADAT9/10.

You need to select again the submix HW Output ADAT 9/10 like in the 1st screenshot.
Best is that you also start your DAW playback to see to which channels your DAW sends audio.
Then you "only" need to raise faders of SW Playback channels with audio which you want to send to the Quadraverb.
(note for completeness of information: you can also add channels from HW inputs to the submix if needed).

Another possibility is, that you are missing something in the DAW routing. Maybe you have defined something like an AUX bus or whatever to ADAT9/10 (SW Playback AD9/10) and only forgot to route audio to there...

You need to understand TM FX / the signal flow and what you want to route in TM FX or the DAW.

At the end of the day submix mode supports you best to configure routing in TM FX.
The routing in TM FX submix mode is on a per HW output basis.
Therefore you see the name of the just selected HW Output (aka "submix") at the base of all HW Input and SW Playback channels. Select each HW output and then you see the changing names at the base of TM FX channels in Top and Middle row.

The procedure to configure a routing for a submix is always the same:
First you need to select a HW Output (also called "submix") and then you create the submix for this particular selected output (aka "submix") by raising / lowering faders from
- HW Inputs in the Top Row of TM FX
- SW Playback channels in the Middle Row of TM FX

By this it is easily possible to create routings / submixes as needed and to store them in snapshots.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

14 (edited by Sonic Reducer 2021-03-28 12:56:33)

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

@ramses: thanks for your reply

Your 1st screenshot shows the submix for the relevant HW Output ADAT 9/10. These channels are the first two of UFX's ADAT2 port. So this should match with the first two analog outputs of the Octopre which should be connected to the Alesis Quadraverb's analog inputs. Did I understand the cabling correctly ?

yes, thats correct.


The second screen shot was just to illustrate how I got a different effect to work. you can prob ignore it.


Ive attached two screenshots of the current situation.


Ive simplified the issue. Only one track is active in Logic, which has the I/O plug-in pointed at the inputs and outputs of the Quadraverb. Audio is also now running.

First screenshot is the HW Output 9/10 submit, the other is the for the Main page.

I have a basic understanding how to create a submix, as I successfully added other hardware defects to my set-up. I'm struggling to understand why there is not input signal coming into the 15/16 channel though in this instance.

https://i.imgur.com/X8SZp1F.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/93Kqqzq.jpg

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

@ramses

Toslink is still showing sync on Fireface setting when in create a loop.

Front of the Octopre is saying 'locked', clock is set to 'internal' on the front.

its the dynamic one here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/fo … ii-dynamic

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Can you please check, whether you forgot to configure the routing on the Octopre ?

In the Focusrite manual you find the information that you need to activate "ADAT-to-Line-Modus" on the front of the device.
Only in this mode you route from ADAT to Line Outputs.

In terms of clock synch: "Scarlett OctoPre Dynamic as a clock slave via ADAT: Connect the ADAT OUT port(s) of the Scarlett OctoPre Dynamic to the ADAT input of the receiving receiving digital device. Connect the ADAT output to one of the ADAT IN ports on the Scarlett OctoPre Dynamic. On the OctoPre, SYNC must be set to ADAT and the -LED should be lit. Make sure also make sure that the sampling rate is set identically on both devices."

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

@ramses

from panel settings, seems ok

https://i.imgur.com/Srnh0JX.jpg

18 (edited by ramses 2021-03-28 14:15:23)

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

OK ADDA mode is set.
But I think I see a mistake ... clock source is set incorrectly on the Octopre.

if I am not mistaken you wanted to have the UFX as clock master, but I see here the LED red at clock mode "internal".

You need to set clock source to "ADAT".
If clock synchronization is not proper then the whole communication will most likely fail.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Sonic Reducer wrote:

@waedi

headphone test- I plugged my headphones into the outputs on the Dynamic while routing the software playback 9/10 to the relevant HW outputs

No sound coming out of the headphones

If ADAT is not working properly, then nothing can work on the Octopre.

Therefore my proposal to make a systematic check following the signal flow ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

@ramses

when I set it to adat I don't get a lock though, and I get no input signal l when turn the QV on and off in this mode.

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

OK then you should open the USB Fireface settings program and set the clock-mode there to adat.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

my Fireface settings

https://i.imgur.com/3rtTQSJ.png

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Change clock source from internal to external please

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

@waedi

"yes the synth works fine but that is not the way you need signal flow for having effect signal from the QV"

does a synth working not suggest adat is working fine though?

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

"Change clock source from internal to external please"

there is no external option just wc, aes, adat 1, adat 2

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Yes, it does not confirm that everything is fine, it does only confirm half of the story.
The one way from synth to the computer works but the other way can be out of order.

The two adat devices can not have both internal clock.
One must set external adat.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

success!

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Everything solved ? What was the root cause ? Wrong clock source at the Octopre ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Def the clock source, I just changed it back and lost the signal.

although, Ive experienced the same issue with a totally different set up (not the dynamic), so not sure what was going on there.

anyway, thanks both for your help, its really appreciated and its been an experience...

30 (edited by ramses 2021-03-28 15:28:11)

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Sonic Reducer wrote:

Def the clock source, I just changed it back and lost the signal.

although, Ive experienced the same issue with a totally different set up (not the dynamic), so not sure what was going on there.

anyway, thanks both for your help, its really appreciated and its been an experience...

Only one device can act as clock master (clock source = "internal").

All other devices need to be clock slave and get the clock signal through a digital input like ADAT to be able to lock and synchronize on the proper sample rate.

The recording interface (UFX) is the ideal candidate in your setup to act as clock source, because then all connected clock sources can learn the clock automatically.

So to have the recording interface as clock master is the most comfortably solution, because then you need only to set the sample rate in the project settings of your DAW project. This will instruct the driver to set proper sample rate on the recording interface and all clock slaves will learn this automatically.

Finally 78 postings to find this out, oh dear wink What did old friends / IT colleagues always tell .. "check cables and connectors" .. and for such setups also clock. Next in turn -> routing.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

The octopre has shown a green light "Locked" on both settings, internal and adat !
No good !
Get rid of it. ADI-8-DSmklll would be a better solution as you use synths and effect units.

Congratulations for reaching the land, the odysee was a rollercoaster-hellride.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

32 (edited by Sonic Reducer 2021-03-28 16:08:23)

Re: [Solved] Routing issue RME Fireface Logic I/O

Bit disappointed in myself im usually very sensitive to clock sync as I have numerous interfaces aggregated together.

yeah, that's what threw me I think when I initially set it up, I assumed all was good because it was saying locked.

lol, yes 78 posts for that...and three days...

Im planning on switching everything over to two ferrofish pulse 16s and an RME Digiface USB, seems more suited to my setup.