1 Topic by Camilo1 (edited by Camilo1 2021-04-23 11:22:16)

  • Registered: 2019-04-12
  • Posts: 35

Topic: UFX+ and 12mic MADI optical

I've been using a UFX+ and a 12mic together for around a month now. I've had them both sitting next to me, just using the 12mic as a standard "hands on" mic amp. They've been connected together via MADI coax, with the UFX+ as the master during this time and have worked reliably. Running two coax cables is a pain for long distance though, so I looked at optical.

I ordered a cheap 25m optical cable to try out (https://www.dcdi.co.uk/fibre-patch-lead … el=B713250), and an SFP module which I saw mentioned on this forum (https://www.digitus.info/de/produkte/ak … /dn-81000/)

I expected either or both of these to not be fit for purpose, because I quite frankly don't know much about these formats, but everything seemed to be at least the right size and the numbers all checked out as far as I could see!

So upon connecting everything up, the 12mic receives no sync - it doesn't seem to be aware of the UFX at all in fact. This is with the UFX+ on internal clock, MADI in/out both set to optical. If I go to the 12mic remote, it just says "no sync" on the madi optical. But if I make the 12mic the master clock, and make the clock source for the UFX Madi optical, it seems to all work fine... I've reversed the cables and it doesn't make any difference..

What's going on?!

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,607

Re: UFX+ and 12mic MADI optical

In the 12Mic you have to choose the Madi optical as clock source.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-04-23 12:54:26)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,231

Re: UFX+ and 12mic MADI optical

waedi wrote:

In the 12Mic you have to choose the Madi optical as clock source.

This is not the root cause.

Camilo1 wrote:

I've been using a UFX+ and a 12mic together for around a month now. I've had them both sitting next to me, just using the 12mic as a standard "hands on" mic amp. They've been connected together via MADI coax, with the UFX+ as the master during this time and have worked reliably. Running two coax cables is a pain for long distance though, so I looked at optical.

I ordered a cheap 25m optical cable to try out (https://www.dcdi.co.uk/fibre-patch-lead … el=B713250), and an SFP module which I saw mentioned on this forum (https://www.digitus.info/de/produkte/ak … /dn-81000/)

I expected either or both of these to not be fit for purpose, because I quite frankly don't know much about these formats, but everything seemed to be at least the right size and the numbers all checked out as far as I could see!

Sorry, but the module that you choosed/linked is the wrong one with 850nm wave length and will therefore not work.
You need a multimode SFP with 1310nm wavelength.

To be on the safe side I would suggest to order the RME part, use the multimode module to be compatible with the UFX+
(assuming here the UFX+ was no "special order" with "single mode"):
Product page: https://www.rme-audio.de/de_sfp-module.html
Thomann product link: https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_madi_sfp_ … i_mode.htm

Camilo1 wrote:

So upon connecting everything up, the 12mic receives no sync - it doesn't seem to be aware of the UFX at all in fact. This is with the UFX+ on internal clock, MADI in/out both set to optical. If I go to the 12mic remote, it just says "no sync" on the madi optical. But if I make the 12mic the master clock, and make the clock source for the UFX Madi optical, it seems to all work fine... I've reversed the cables and it doesn't make any difference..
What's going on?!

You choosed the wrong SFP module, therefore there is no communication possible between these devices.

Once you use the proper module then the UFX+ will be clock master = "clock source = internal" and
the 12Mic you configure to get clock from MADI optical:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/md0t8m7fa8vqs4b/2021-04-23%2012Mic-Get%20clock%20from%20MADI.jpg?dl=1

I updated my blog article accordingly to make it easier not to trap over this:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … XTC-DE-EN/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2019-04-12
  • Posts: 35

Re: UFX+ and 12mic MADI optical

Perfect, thank you! I love it when I'm wrong.

I was struggling to find specs for the SFP module - it'd be great if such a thing were more clearly outlined somewhere..

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-04-23 16:37:20)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,231

Re: UFX+ and 12mic MADI optical

Camilo1 wrote:

Perfect, thank you! I love it when I'm wrong.

I was struggling to find specs for the SFP module - it'd be great if such a thing were more clearly outlined somewhere..

I checked the manual, you can find this information here:
https://docs.rme-audio.com/12mic/021-9c_madi/#021-9C
https://docs.rme-audio.com/12mic/091-1r_accessories/

Maybe not in the way "how to purchase a 3rd party SFP", but to get it working proper using RME products.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2008-05-07
  • Posts: 131

Re: UFX+ and 12mic MADI optical

Camilo1 wrote:

Perfect, thank you! I love it when I'm wrong.

I was struggling to find specs for the SFP module - it'd be great if such a thing were more clearly outlined somewhere..

Yes.

I love RME gear, and I have a fair bit of it now (UFX+, 12mic, Octamic XTC on its way).

But the information available about some aspects of use, especially accessories, is hard to find. It should be relatively easy to
include detailed specifications of things like MADI SFP modules, connectors, and modes that will work. When I got the 12mic, I wondered if it would work with TotalMix, but the manual gives no clue; I got the answer on this forum (no, but it's planned!).

Otherwise, the manuals are very clear and well written, but this kind of information ought to be clearly flagged on the web site when you're considering what to buy.

I'm in the US, so I've relied on Jeff Petersen at Synthax, who is very helpful and knowledgable. But it doesn't seem appropriate that you have to contact technical support to know what gear to buy.

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-04-24 16:31:07)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,231

Re: UFX+ and 12mic MADI optical

From RME perspective it makes sense, that TM FX Auxdevice support is not being actively advertized or documented in the manual as long as it is not there.

Regarding which SFP to choose: there is information at the bottom of the product page on the web server, maybe you overlooked it ...

"Accessories
Optical MADI SFP Module (optional available)
This module extends compatible RME devices with an optical SFP transceiver. Up to 64 audio channels can then be sent to and received from other MADI devices. THE RME SFP module is available in a Multi-Mode and in a Single-Mode version, it can be inserted and removed while the RME MADI device is powered on. It is not necessary to power down the device."

... and "more info" leads to the proper info page which details the two options: https://www.rme-audio.de/sfp-module.html

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

8 Reply by vanceen (edited by vanceen 2021-04-24 19:04:43)

  • Registered: 2008-05-07
  • Posts: 131

Re: UFX+ and 12mic MADI optical

ramses wrote:

From RME perspective it makes sense, that TM FX Auxdevice support is not being actively advertized or documented in the manual as long as it is not there.

Thanks, Ramses.

I don't agree. It would have saved me a fair bit of time if there had been a simple statement that 12mic can be controlled remotely by its web page but not by TotalMix (yet).

Regarding which SFP to choose: there is information at the bottom of the product page on the web server, maybe you overlooked it ...

"Accessories
Optical MADI SFP Module (optional available)
This module extends compatible RME devices with an optical SFP transceiver. Up to 64 audio channels can then be sent to and received from other MADI devices. THE RME SFP module is available in a Multi-Mode and in a Single-Mode version, it can be inserted and removed while the RME MADI device is powered on. It is not necessary to power down the device.... and "more info" leads to the proper info page which details the two options: https://www.rme-audio.de/sfp-module.html"

I didn't overlook that. It simply didn't guide me clearly to the correct product, e.g. do I want Single Mode or Multi Mode? Maybe it's in there somewhere and I didn't discover it. I have an advanced degree in science, I've been building my own computers for twenty five years, and I design and build guitar amp circuits. Most people would not say that I'm dumb. But I was not able to be certain of which product to buy from the links you gave.

I don't want to sound negative. RME is great, and their web site and literature is mostly great once you've climbed the learning curve to understand it. I still think that they could server their customers better with some slightly increased clarity about some details.

  • Registered: 2019-04-12
  • Posts: 35

Re: UFX+ and 12mic MADI optical

vanceen wrote:
ramses wrote:

From RME perspective it makes sense, that TM FX Auxdevice support is not being actively advertized or documented in the manual as long as it is not there.

Thanks, Ramses.

I don't agree. It would have saved me a fair bit of time if there had been a simple statement that 12mic can be controlled remotely by its web page but not by TotalMix (yet).

Regarding which SFP to choose: there is information at the bottom of the product page on the web server, maybe you overlooked it ...

"Accessories
Optical MADI SFP Module (optional available)
This module extends compatible RME devices with an optical SFP transceiver. Up to 64 audio channels can then be sent to and received from other MADI devices. THE RME SFP module is available in a Multi-Mode and in a Single-Mode version, it can be inserted and removed while the RME MADI device is powered on. It is not necessary to power down the device.... and "more info" leads to the proper info page which details the two options: https://www.rme-audio.de/sfp-module.html"

I didn't overlook that. It simply didn't guide me clearly to the correct product, e.g. do I want Single Mode or Multi Mode? Maybe it's in there somewhere and I didn't discover it. I have an advanced degree in science, I've been building my own computers for twenty five years, and I design and build guitar amp circuits. Most people would not say that I'm dumb. But I was not able to be certain of which product to buy from the links you gave.

I don't want to sound negative. RME is great, and their web site and literature is mostly great once you've climbed the learning curve to understand it. I still think that they could server their customers better with some slightly increased clarity about some details.

I agree with this - these are formats outside my sphere of audio knowledge and in the information RME provide is a little bit thin!

Yes, I could buy the RME branded SFP module, but it's £60, plus delivery from Germany for me! Times three for three 12mics. And that's fine, but I feel for such a standardised piece of equipment I should be given the information to make my own decision.. Or get a replacement part from a local tech shop when I stand on it in front of an orchestra! It says above that I need to buy a "multimode SFP with 1310nm wavelength." - great information. Surely it should be in the user guide!