Topic: Is this viable?

Is the setup https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fcudMT … sp=sharing viable as I am not able to get audio from Computer 2.

Re: Is this viable?

What device is the Madi Dante Bridge and how is it connected to the computer 2 ?

M1-Monterey, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver

Re: Is this viable?

Computer 2 to USB/Dante converter that converts WDM 1 and 2 to two Dante channels.

Re: Is this viable?

waedi wrote:

What device is the Madi Dante Bridge and how is it connected to the computer 2 ?

It is Focusrite RedNet 6.

5 (edited by waedi 2021-05-23 01:23:02)

Re: Is this viable?

Still not clear how computer 2 is sending any signal out of the computer into the Focusrite, as the Focusrite RedNet6 has no USB connection.
Is the focusrite connected via ethernet cable ?
Do you use a special software to create Dante signals from WDM ?
Do you use the Focusrite RedNet Control Software ?
Does the RedNetControl confirm receiving Dante signals from the computer ?

M1-Monterey, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver

6 (edited by ramses 2021-05-23 02:46:37)

Re: Is this viable?

hifimckinney wrote:

Is the setup https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fcudMT … sp=sharing viable as I am not able to get audio from Computer 2.

I have the suspicion that your MADI cabling might be wrong as you break the optical MADI ring structure by using MADI coax between ADI-642 and RedNet6.

I would try to change/simplify the setup and build a MADI ring structure using optical fiber cables (Multimode OM3 or OM4) only.

By this you would
- exclude MADI coax as "potential" root cause,
- get Galvanic isolation between ADI-642 and RedNet6 which I regard as additional advantage.

MADIface USB---MO--->ADI-642---MO---Rednet6---+
       ^                                                                      |
       |                                                                       |
       +---------------MADI Optical (MO) -----------------+

General recommendations / order of steps:
1. Ensure that all devices use the same MADI format: 64ch and 96k frames
2. Decide how you want to implement clocking.
    Rednet 6 supports sample rate conversion, you can use different clocks in the two clock domains "Rednet network" and "MADI"
3. For a simple setup I would 1st of all use the MADIface USB as clock master, all other devices get clock from MADI.
    Advantage: you can use RME driver settings to check clock status, whether you get a "sync" from MADI optical.
4. If the devices are clock synchronized properly then you can start checking / validating the routing on each of the devices.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Is this viable?

waedi wrote:

Still not clear how computer 2 is sending any signal out of the computer into the Focusrite, as the Focusrite RedNet6 has no USB connection.
Is the focusrite connected via ethernet cable ?
Do you use a special software to create Dante signals from WDM ?
Do you use the Focusrite RedNet Control Software ?
Does the RedNetControl confirm receiving Dante signals from the computer ?

Yes, Ethernet, both RedNet and USB to Dante are connected to same network.

Re: Is this viable?

ramses wrote:
hifimckinney wrote:

Is the setup https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fcudMT … sp=sharing viable as I am not able to get audio from Computer 2.

I have the suspicion that your MADI cabling might be wrong as you break the optical MADI ring structure by using MADI coax between ADI-642 and RedNet6.

I would try to change/simplify the setup and build a MADI ring structure using optical fiber cables (Multimode OM3 or OM4) only.

By this you would
- exclude MADI coax as "potential" root cause,
- get Galvanic isolation between ADI-642 and RedNet6 which I regard as additional advantage.

MADIface USB---MO--->ADI-642---MO---Rednet6---+
       ^                                                                      |
       |                                                                       |
       +---------------MADI Optical (MO) -----------------+

General recommendations / order of steps:
1. Ensure that all devices use the same MADI format: 64ch and 96k frames
2. Decide how you want to implement clocking.
    Rednet 6 supports sample rate conversion, you can use different clocks in the two clock domains "Rednet network" and "MADI"
3. For a simple setup I would 1st of all use the MADIface USB as clock master, all other devices get clock from MADI.
    Advantage: you can use RME driver settings to check clock status, whether you get a "sync" from MADI optical.
4. If the devices are clock synchronized properly then you can start checking / validating the routing on each of the devices.


So, in the ring setup, since both ADI 642 and RedNet have mappings, will the mapping in 642 be in action or RedNet 6 or both?

9 (edited by ramses 2021-05-23 17:56:30)

Re: Is this viable?

hifimckinney wrote:
ramses wrote:
hifimckinney wrote:

Is the setup https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fcudMT … sp=sharing viable as I am not able to get audio from Computer 2.

I have the suspicion that your MADI cabling might be wrong as you break the optical MADI ring structure by using MADI coax between ADI-642 and RedNet6.

I would try to change/simplify the setup and build a MADI ring structure using optical fiber cables (Multimode OM3 or OM4) only.

By this you would
- exclude MADI coax as "potential" root cause,
- get Galvanic isolation between ADI-642 and RedNet6 which I regard as additional advantage.

MADIface USB---MO--->ADI-642---MO---Rednet6---+
       ^                                                                      |
       |                                                                       |
       +---------------MADI Optical (MO) -----------------+

General recommendations / order of steps:
1. Ensure that all devices use the same MADI format: 64ch and 96k frames
2. Decide how you want to implement clocking.
    Rednet 6 supports sample rate conversion, you can use different clocks in the two clock domains "Rednet network" and "MADI"
3. For a simple setup I would 1st of all use the MADIface USB as clock master, all other devices get clock from MADI.
    Advantage: you can use RME driver settings to check clock status, whether you get a "sync" from MADI optical.
4. If the devices are clock synchronized properly then you can start checking / validating the routing on each of the devices.


So, in the ring setup, since both ADI 642 and RedNet have mappings, will the mapping in 642 be in action or RedNet 6 or both?

At each MADI device
- incoming MADI data is passed through unchanged
- only one block of eight channels is replaced. This allows up to 8 devices to be connected serially.
An input can be assigned to as many outputs as present (splitting), but an output can not be assigned to more than one input (digital mixing).

At the ADI-642:
RME devices support some extended MADI features like ADC and ACA.
Activation of ADC ("Auto Delay Compensation") makes no sense here as only one RME device supporting such a feature is connected to this serial chain of devices. For this reason you also can't use ACA (Auto Channel Assignment) as well which needs ADC. ACA could automatically configure a static routing based on the device ID on this MADI bus (1..8).
But a static routing you can't use here as you need a customized routing according to your drawing.

But just to give you an impression what such a static routing would do for the 1st device at the MADI bus with the MADI ID 1:
  AES   IN 1-8   -> MADI OUT 1-8
  MADI IN 1-8   -> AES   OUT 1-8
  MADI IN 9-64 -> MADI OUT 9-64 (passed through unchanged)

According to your drawing you need to configure the following customized routing ...
But just a moment we need to correct some planning / naming mistakes in your drawing first.
Your ADI-642 has 4 XLR ports IN (AES 1/2 IN ... AES 7/8 IN) and 4 XLR ports OUT (AES 1/2 OUT .. AES 7/8 OUT).
This corresponts to MADI x/y IN and OUT on the MADI bus.

Remember: you can route inputs to multiple outputs (splitting), but not multiple inputs to one output (mixing)

So .. your intended routing from MADI 1/2 IN to AES 1 OUT is not possible, makes no sense.
Maybe you meant MADI 1/2 IN to AES 1/2 OUT (1st XLR output plug on device), thats possible.

Same with your intended routing from MADI 15/16 to AES 2 OUT, also not possible.
Maybe you meant MADI 15/16 IN to AES 3/4 OUT (2nd XLR output plug on device) ?!

I would correct this in the drawing otherwise this will confuse you.

I would take the time and read the manual of the ADI-642, its all explained there and how you can make use of the LEDs to check whether you get a signal, whether clock is ok, whether data arrives, etc.
And how to configure the routing Matrix.

So what you need to configure at minimum at the ADI-642 in terms of routing:
MADI   1/2   IN to AES 1/2 OUT (1st XLR plug)
MADI 15/16 IN to AES 3/4 OUT (2nd XLR plug)
MADI   3-14 IN to MADI   3-14 OUT (pass through)
MADI 17-64 IN to MADI 17-64 OUT (pass through)

Also take your time to make yourself familiar with the documentation, the status LEDs on the device will be very useful to check whether you get a synchronized input signal and whether the inputs carry audio ...
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi642_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi642_e.pdf

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

10 (edited by ramses 2021-05-23 18:23:01)

Re: Is this viable?

Allow me one more comment, I think that the intended routing on the Dante PC / RedNET6
    WDM 1/2 to MADI 15/16 --> customized routing on ADI-642 ----> AES 3/4 OUT
is suboptimal.
Better use:
    WDM 1/2 to MADI 3/4   ----> standard routing on ADI-642 (maybe even by using ADC/ACA) -> AES 3/4 OUT

Think abount a bigger setup with up to 8x ADI-642, where you would like to use RME features like
- ADC and
- ACA
Its much easier having only to configure the first device as ADC master and the rest would happen automaticall on the other 7 devices on the bus in terms of
- each device detecting its MADI ID automatically on the MADI bus
- each ADC client to set delay compensation properly
- each ADC client configuring the routing automatically using ACA.

Not 100% sure whether you need to configure this only on the 1st device, I think on my XTC preamp I had to configure at least "Auto-CA" on each of the devices, pls check manual and re-think your routing design.

I would use the standard routing on each of the devices and perform final routing
a) in TM FX
b) for the Dante/MADI bridge on the RedNET6

I think this way you would have many operational advantages, a clear consistent concept.

Hope I made no mistake .. hope it helps.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

11 (edited by ramses 2021-05-24 11:32:44)

Re: Is this viable?

This is a drawing for an implementation from which I think it could work

I could be wrong, not knowing the products exactly, I simply tried my best to bring in my personal experience and understanding of MADI that I gained from using other products like UFX+, XTC and 12Mic.

Note: ADC and ACA are not mandatory to use here, but I think something like this is "best practise" as you have operational advantages and scale this solution by simply adding ADI-642 as ADC slaves without having to take care of MADI IDs, routing and delay compensation.

Good luck with the implementation:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/berqgnu5ykruleh/RME%20Digitace%20USB%20-%20ADI-642%20-%20Focusrite%20Rednet6%20-%20MADI%20Dante%20Bridge.jpg?dl=1

During the cabling and implementation of clock and routing I strongly recommend, to make yourself familiar with
- the clock input status view of the RME settings dialog on the PC where the MADIface USB is installed and
- the very useful status LED of the ADI-642
  Error LED -> whether MADI input signal is missing or invalid (-> wrong or damaged cable, wrong cablin)
  Sync LED -> whether you have a valid clock synchronized input signal via MADI input or not
  Audio 1..8 LED -> whether there is at least one channel carrying audio (nonzero data) in blocks of 8 channels:
  Audio LED 1 = MADI ch 1-8, Audio LED 2 = MADI ch 9-15 and so on

So please check the product documentation for all of this and implement in a structured way:
1. proper cabling
2. proper clock implementation (you need to see in the MADIface driver settings that you get a "sync" status via MADI optical
3. proper routing and that audio arrives at the ADI-642 (then you have at least a proper audio routing either at PC1 (Madiface USB) or at PC2 (Dante with proper channel routing on RedNet6 towards MADI and ADI-642).

https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi642_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi642_e.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/madiface_usb_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/madiface_usb_e.pdf

For RedNet6 you need to contact Focusrite if there is something unclear.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Is this viable?

ramses wrote:

This is a drawing for an implementation from which I think it could work

I could be wrong, not knowing the products exactly, I simply tried my best to bring in my personal experience and understanding of MADI that I gained from using other products like UFX+, XTC and 12Mic.

Note: ADC and ACA are not mandatory to use here, but I think something like this is "best practise" as you have operational advantages and scale this solution by simply adding ADI-642 as ADC slaves without having to take care of MADI IDs, routing and delay compensation.

Good luck with the implementation:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/berqgnu5ykruleh/RME%20Digitace%20USB%20-%20ADI-642%20-%20Focusrite%20Rednet6%20-%20MADI%20Dante%20Bridge.jpg?dl=1

During the cabling and implementation of clock and routing I strongly recommend, to make yourself familiar with
- the clock input status view of the RME settings dialog on the PC where the MADIface USB is installed and
- the very useful status LED of the ADI-642
  Error LED -> whether MADI input signal is missing or invalid (-> wrong or damaged cable, wrong cablin)
  Sync LED -> whether you have a valid clock synchronized input signal via MADI input or not
  Audio 1..8 LED -> whether there is at least one channel carrying audio (nonzero data) in blocks of 8 channels:
  Audio LED 1 = MADI ch 1-8, Audio LED 2 = MADI ch 9-15 and so on

So please check the product documentation for all of this and implement in a structured way:
1. proper cabling
2. proper clock implementation (you need to see in the MADIface driver settings that you get a "sync" status via MADI optical
3. proper routing and that audio arrives at the ADI-642 (then you have at least a proper audio routing either at PC1 (Madiface USB) or at PC2 (Dante with proper channel routing on RedNet6 towards MADI and ADI-642).

https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi642_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi642_e.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/madiface_usb_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/madiface_usb_e.pdf

For RedNet6 you need to contact Focusrite if there is something unclear.

Thanks, Ramses, it worked. I connected everything correctly and the thing that was missing was to do a mapping on MADIFACE USB using TotalMix.

13 (edited by ramses 2021-05-25 17:51:33)

Re: Is this viable?

Congrads, great ! Well done :-)

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro