1 Topic by marko_m (edited by marko_m 2021-06-06 14:28:15)

  • Registered: 2021-06-06
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Topic: Spontaneous un-muting in TMFX/Babyface Pro FS

I'm having a problem with TMFX & BBF Pro FS - the use case is pretty simple:  I have "Phones 1" mix mirrored to "Main" and then I keep their respective faders at the level I would "usually" want to listen at (for the respective channel) and set both channels (Phones 1 and Main) to Mute (blue "M" check box on the channel).  Then, basically, I unmute one or the other (or both) - depending on whether I want to monitor via headphones or speakers.

The problem is that, often times, simply unmuting the "Main" channel doesn't do anything...  I get no sound until I "tweak" the faders for channels that are a part of the mix (by "tweak" - I mean change level and then bring it back to what it was)...

The other (more annoying) problem is - let's say I am monitoring on headphones (so "Phones 1" is un-muted and "Main" is muted), sometimes when I adjust the faders that are a part of the (shared) mix, my "Main" output will spontaneously come to life (despite the fact that it is still muted!!). Generally, all I need to do is unmute and mute again and it goes silent again but it's pretty annoying especially since, because I have headphones on (and it's usually late at night LOL), I don't immediately realize that the speakers are going (often times, the first clue is when the angry wife walks in to point out the time of the night - although, sometimes I notice on my own the unusual "spaciousness" of the headphone mix LOL)...

Anyhow, it definitely seems like a bug in the TMFX although I keep an open mind that it might be a user error...  Anyone else experiences this behaviour?  Is my approach fundamentally wrong (if so, what is a better way - whilst keeping things simple)?

Personally, I think it's a fair assumption that whenever you see a big blue "M" lit up on an output channel, you should be safe to think that nothing will be coming out of that channel - which makes me think it's a bug (regardless of whether there are better workflows possible or not).

TMFX version is 1.3, BBF Pro FS driver version is 1.212 and firmware is 130.

Thanks,

Marko

  • waedi
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Re: Spontaneous un-muting in TMFX/Babyface Pro FS

Are some Midi device connected to the computer ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-06-06 17:43:37)

  • ramses
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Re: Spontaneous un-muting in TMFX/Babyface Pro FS

Hi Marco, thanks for the report.

I tried to reproduce it on the UFX+ with TM FX 1.72 (you have 1.73), but from the beginning I had the problem that the submix of "Phones1" could not be mirrored to "Main Out" as you described. I can only mirror "Main Out" to "Phones 1", but not vice versa.

Which brings me to the following point.
1. could you please find out and document how to reproducibly trigger the problem in as few steps as possible?
2. do a complete TM FX Mixer reset and check if the problem still occurs (after going through the documented steps)?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2021-06-06
  • Posts: 3

Re: Spontaneous un-muting in TMFX/Babyface Pro FS

Thanks for your replies...

@waedi - there are some MIDI devices connected to the computer but none connected to the interface and none that could (realistically) control the interface (also "Enable MIDI control" is turned off in TMFX (as is "Enable OSC control"). It's a pretty simple setup.

@ramses - I just "flipped" mirrors around (i.e. "Main" is now mirrored to "Phones 1" instead of the other way around).  There was no real reason why I had it the other way around - except, perhaps, that I mostly use headphones and only occasionally turn on the speakers so, perhaps, it was just because I tend to think of the headphones as the "main" out (i.e. the last mix that I "want" would usually be created while using headphones).  Anyhow, I thought I'd flip things around so now "Main" is mirrored to headphones instead and I will see if the same thing happens.  I will also keep an eye on the mix (save) status - i.e. always ensure that changes are saved (the "Mix #" checkbox is never blinking).  If I run into the same behaviour again, I will try to do steps 1 & 2 you are suggesting. The problem is that the issue is intermittent - it doesn't ALWAYS happen when I adjust fader levels on "Software Playback" group.  Only occasionally I will realize that the speakers are playing while I'm listening on headphones (and, usually, I don't realize immediately - because headphones are louder - which makes it more difficult to be certain of the last action taken!).  However, every time it did happen (and it was certainly more than once or twice) - I would switch to TMFX screen and "M" button would still be selected (blue) on "Main" channel - however, the speakers would definitely be playing!  Unmuting and muting the Main channel would silence them again.  Anyhow - I will update this to let you know if it happens again (with the above two measures in place - i.e. Main being the "main" and "Phones 1" being the mirror and main mix always stored and not blinking).

Regards,

Marko

  • waedi
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Re: Spontaneous un-muting in TMFX/Babyface Pro FS

you can assign the Main out directly to the Phones in the Assign menu in the control room in Totalmix.
No more mirroring needed.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • ramses
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Re: Spontaneous un-muting in TMFX/Babyface Pro FS

> I just "flipped" mirrors around (i.e. "Main" is now mirrored to "Phones 1" instead of the other way around). 

To be clear on this: the other way around is not possible for me on UFX+ with TM FX 1.72.

When trying to setup a mirror from Phones 1 -> Main Out,
   then rightclick on Phones 1 allows me to select "Copy/Mirror Output Phones1"
   but then rightclick to Main Out is missing a selection like "Mirror of Phones 1"

The other way around works
When trying to setup a mirror from Main Out -> Phones 1
   then rightclick on Main Out allows me to select "Copy/Mirror Output Main"
   then rightclick to Phones 1 has the possibility to select "Mirror of Output Main".

> perhaps, it was just because I tend to think of the headphones as the "main" out (i.e. the last mix that
> I "want" would usually be created while using headphones).

It depends how you work with TM FX. Volume adjustments with the encoder
- either at the device itself (e.g. UFX+) or
- using ARC USB
will be performed on the output channel, that has been mapped to Main Out in your current TM FX snapshot.
You can use in each of the 8 snapshots a mapping to Main Out as you like / need.

Another thing .. in terms of feedback from Microphones.
I personally think that it usually makes sense to have two different submixes for phones and monitors,
because with phones you can use your mic and do not get a feedback loop.
If you listen through active monitors then you need to turn off the mics.

For this reason alone I would provide two different routings / snapshots for listening to music through either active monitors or phones.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14