1 Topic by Some_Dud (edited by Some_Dud 2021-07-19 05:25:25)

  • Registered: 2021-06-01
  • Posts: 19

Topic: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

When changing sample rate without reinserting USB cable, high pitch noise can be heard in some outputs. When observed through mixer, it's visible that noise is appearing in headphones output, but not in monitors, also in ADAT software out but not in several others. Again, if cable is reinserted, there are no issues, but is it intended to work like this?

When PC is started, and then playback is started, this noise randomly occurs as well.

Recently I discovered, that opening DAW (set to use ASIO Fireface USB, 48000Hz) and closing it fixes the issue until PC is restarted or cable is reinserted - after changing sample rate there is no noise.

But I still want to fix this issue altogether and understand what is the cause of it - my PC or some defect in audio interface itself.


https://i.ibb.co/GCckzSK/1.png

2 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

That would be normal if you screw up your system by changing the sample rate while a WDM playback is running...

File sample rate 41 kHz. Project sample rate 48 kHz WDM. ASIO running at 96 kHz. Chaos?

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Registered: 2021-06-01
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

MC wrote:

That would be normal if you screw up your system by changing the sample rate while a WDM playback is running...

File sample rate 41 kHz. Project sample rate 48 kHz WDM. ASIO running at 96 kHz. Chaos?

There was no playback anywhere the moment I was changing sample rate, Audacity there was just for background.

Yes, file is in 44100, but Foobar 2000 plays it on current sample rate of device.

Even without ASIO, when nothing is being played, if sample rate is changed and cable is not reinserted before further playback, noise will appear.

I suppose there should have been some audible click, when device kind of restarts for new sample rate each time it's changed, but there is none, thus audiointerface and drivers work on different rates and noise is generated...

So... normally, when there is no playback, it should change without problems and there is no need in reinserting the cable, right?

4 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

Of course. I can switch sample rates all day and see no issue.

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

MC wrote:

Of course. I can switch sample rates all day and see no issue.

Right now I restarted PC, the interface was set to 48000Hz, I played test signal in Windows Sound playback devices - everything is ok.

Then I changed sample rate in Fireface Settings to 96000Hz, waited until outputs reappear in windows, played windows test signal and there was noise.

What can be the issue in this case?

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

Not a known issue - can you record this somehow?

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Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

7 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

Try a different buffer size like 128 or 256 samples.

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

MC wrote:

Try a different buffer size like 128 or 256 samples.

It persists.

  • Registered: 2021-06-01
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

RME Support wrote:

Not a known issue - can you record this somehow?

I recorded the problem and sent a link to archive on Google Drive via forum e-mail to both RME Support and Matthias.

  • Registered: 2021-06-01
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

MC wrote:

Try a different buffer size like 128 or 256 samples.

Also, forgot to mention, when PC is started, and then playback is started, this noise randomly occurs as well.

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

Some_Dud wrote:
MC wrote:

Try a different buffer size like 128 or 256 samples.

Also, forgot to mention, when PC is started, and then playback is started, this noise randomly occurs as well.

Is that happening from a "cold" start or when resuming from hibernate or standby? I just had some heavy noise when I resumed from hibernate. Happend once to me so far (in a few weeks).

  • Registered: 2021-06-01
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

rpnfan wrote:
Some_Dud wrote:
MC wrote:

Try a different buffer size like 128 or 256 samples.

Also, forgot to mention, when PC is started, and then playback is started, this noise randomly occurs as well.

Is that happening from a "cold" start or when resuming from hibernate or standby? I just had some heavy noise when I resumed from hibernate. Happend once to me so far (in a few weeks).

Regular shut down at evening and then turn on at morning.

  • Registered: 2021-06-01
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

Recently I discovered, that opening DAW (set to use ASIO Fireface USB, 48000Hz) and closing it fixes the issue until PC is restarted or cable is reinserted - after changing sample rate there is no noise.

But I still want to fix this issue altogether and understand what is the cause of it - my PC or some defect in audio interface itself.

  • Registered: 2021-08-27
  • Posts: 1

Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

Hello,

Same issue for me, are there a fix from RME?

Thanks.

  • Registered: 2021-06-01
  • Posts: 19

Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

RoryJim wrote:

Hello,

Same issue for me, are there a fix from RME?

Thanks.

No, at least for now. I personally just open DAW and close it and it fixes the issue until PC reboot / device reconnect.

16 Reply by ss1h2a3tw (edited by ss1h2a3tw 2022-12-10 08:20:12)

  • Registered: 2022-12-10
  • Posts: 4

Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

Hi, I am also affected by this issue.

I found a way to reproduce this problem.
If we change the sample rate from low to high during playback with WDM (web browser, ..etc), the static noise will start happenning after we change this back. It seems to only happens to large sample rate gap that have different channel counts.

When this issue happens if there is nothing playing the noise will disappear after the application (browser) quit and appear back on next playback. Seems like it is trigger by any proccess openning a WDM device.

My main problem is that I am using babyface pro fs as my default playback device and it usually start playing static noises after returning from sleep.

My theory is that when we recovered back from sleep, there will be notifications that is playing some ringtones. But as the device initializes, some race conditions is triggered causing the noise.

Here is a reproduce video.
https://youtu.be/Xt1ybEyyZzw

0:05 start audio playback
0:14 changed from 48Khz to 176.4Khz
0:17 noise showed at FX out in total mix (right side)
0:18 changed from 176.4Khz to 48Khz
0:22 noise output to A/S 1/2 and recorded by loopback
0:24 stop audio playback / restart playback
~ noise continue no matter playing or not
0:38 unplug BF

I contacted to the support but the support wasn't really progressive on this issue.

  • Registered: 2022-10-08
  • Posts: 62

Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

This is possible a DAW bug

The only way to confirm this is if you have two different types of DAW and try it and see if you get the same issue,

Best to uninstalls your DAW and reinstall

  • Registered: 2022-12-10
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

I can reproduce this issue by google chrome and microsoft edge with playing youtube videos. I don't think this is a DAW issue.

19 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

I would not even say that this is a DAW bug, but expected behaviour of the Windows sound system. No DAW can work correctly when more or less un-signalled and unexpected the playback devices vanish. There is no signalling like it exists with ASIO.

So easy and the only cure: stop playback before changing the sample rate. No WDM playback or record device and no such software must have active devices during the reconfiguration process.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2022-12-10
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

Thanks for replying! I agree that changing sample rate will mess things up. But this symptom is as same as when Babyface generates static noise when recovering from sleep. This problem is occuring few times a week. Is it possible to run some routines in the driver to try reset the device when recovering from sleep?

  • Registered: 2022-10-08
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

MC wrote:

I would not even say that this is a DAW bug, but expected behaviour of the Windows sound system. No DAW can work correctly when more or less un-signalled and unexpected the playback devices vanish. There is no signalling like it exists with ASIO.

So easy and the only cure: stop playback before changing the sample rate. No WDM playback or record device and no such software must have active devices during the reconfiguration process.

It this does make sense, i think because the issue keeps coming back leads me to think its a bug of some sort

22 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

ss1h2a3tw wrote:

Thanks for replying! I agree that changing sample rate will mess things up. But this symptom is as same as when Babyface generates static noise when recovering from sleep. This problem is occuring few times a week. Is it possible to run some routines in the driver to try reset the device when recovering from sleep?

That is not a common problem and points to your system changing the sample rate (for unknown reason) after wake-up. Might be a software installed that mangles with WDM.

It is not the device that needs to be reset, but the whole WDM subsystem. And that requires a reset (stop/start or reboot) of all currently running WDM software, which is not possible from our side.

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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23 Reply by MC

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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

novabusrst wrote:
MC wrote:

I would not even say that this is a DAW bug, but expected behaviour of the Windows sound system. No DAW can work correctly when more or less un-signalled and unexpected the playback devices vanish. There is no signalling like it exists with ASIO.

So easy and the only cure: stop playback before changing the sample rate. No WDM playback or record device and no such software must have active devices during the reconfiguration process.

It this does make sense, i think because the issue keeps coming back leads me to think its a bug of some sort

You seem to have not understood what happens here. As can be seen in the Sound control panel changing the sample rate removes all WDM devices and reinstalls new ones with the new/current sample rate. Obviously this will screw any program that uses WDM during that process. This whole scheme is in there since 15 years or so, and won't change as there is no alternative for the current feature set of our multi-client, combined WDM/ASIO drivers. So as I wrote: if you want to change the sample rate (why?) make sure no WDM is in use.

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Registered: 2022-12-10
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Re: Babyface Pro FS - High pitch noise when changing sample rate

Quick update here. I found that for the recovering from sleep case, this problem will occurr if multiple playback channel is used before sleep. I was using Discord on another playback channel (not default playback channel). I can't reproduce the problem if I set discord to use the default playback channel.