1 Topic by Vangroover (edited by Vangroover 2021-08-20 07:00:12)

  • Registered: 2021-08-05
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Topic: How to best use a Fireface UFX & a Fireface 800 together

Hi there,

I'm the proud owner of an FF UFX and recently acquired an FF800.  I'd like to use them together, but not 100% certain on the best approach to doing this.  I'm kindly asking for your input.

  • The first option I considered was to configure the FF800 as an ADAT expander (with the UFX as the audio interface/master)

  • The second option I'm considering is using them both at as interfaces at the same time.


With regard the the second option, P.37 of the UFX manual indicates that
"...an operation of more than one Fireface UFX makes no sense and is therefore not actively supported by RME."

This, of course, seems like a pretty strong indication that using them both as interfaces at the same time is not a good idea.

Having said that, am I correct in thinking that even though the manual refers to using more than one FF UFX, it makes no difference that in my case the second unit is an FF800 not another UFX?

Is there any use case where running them both as interfaces might make sense?

Am I then indeed best off using the FF800 as an ADAT expander?

Is there a mystery 3rd option I should be considering?

Thanks in advance for your time and input!

Stephane

  • ramses
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Re: How to best use a Fireface UFX & a Fireface 800 together

FF UFX and 800 use the same Firewire ASIO driver.
So you could connect both devices by firewire 400.
By this you get the highest amount of channels out of the two devices.
UFX as clock master, FF 800 as clock slave, clock either through ADAT or WC.
Ensure in the driver settings to always use the same ASIO buffersize for both devices.

You didn't tell which OS you are using ....
For Windows 10 you get still the firewire legacy driver and PCIe cards with non-broken FW chips.
For Apple you get solutions through thunderbolt / tb to fw adapters.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • vinark
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Re: How to best use a Fireface UFX & a Fireface 800 together

Fyi if you use usb for the ufx it is not a unified driver, only with both on FireWire on windows. With Mac it is very different.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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  • Registered: 2021-08-05
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Re: How to best use a Fireface UFX & a Fireface 800 together

ramses wrote:

FF UFX and 800 use the same Firewire ASIO driver.
So you could connect both devices by firewire 400.
By this you get the highest amount of channels out of the two devices.
UFX as clock master, FF 800 as clock slave, clock either through ADAT or WC.
Ensure in the driver settings to always use the same ASIO buffersize for both devices.

You didn't tell which OS you are using ....
For Windows 10 you get still the firewire legacy driver and PCIe cards with non-broken FW chips.
For Apple you get solutions through thunderbolt / tb to fw adapters.

I'm using a Mac Apple Silicon (M1) on Big Sur. 

So in the scenario you describe, I'd connect the UFX via usb, as well as the FW800 (using TB & FW adapters) AND connect the UFX and FW800 to each other w/ a FW400 cable?  It's that last part the confuses me a bit...

I appreciate your reply a ton, by the way Thank you!

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-08-29 07:08:35)

  • ramses
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Re: How to best use a Fireface UFX & a Fireface 800 together

I am not sure whether its possible to use such a setup with two TB->FW adapters in your case.
IF it works it might block your two main TB outputs of your Apple computer.
I am not sure, whether its possible to use two TB->FW adapters in such a setup whereever you want in such a chain of TB devices, maybe behind a thunderbolt dock which might offer again multiple TB outputs.

Besides the advantage of such a solution to max out the number of useable I/O ports you should be aware of, that you have to work with two separate TM FX instances for UFX and FF800 where you can NOT route audio between the two interfaces. You would need ADAT cross connections between those interfaces to be able to route at least a few audio channels between UFX and FF800 in this setup.

So in your case with Apple M1 and UFX/FF800 it might be easier to use the UFX as main interface and clock master and to connect it through USB to your Apple. The FF800 you connect through ADAT, it will receive clock for synchronization through ADAT. Best is to use two TOSLINK cables:

Apple ---USB--- UFX (clock master) ---> ADAT --- FF800 (gets clock from ADAT IN)
                                                      <--- ADAT --- FF800

To be able to still operate the FF800 its recommended to get at least one TB->FW adapter and to install also the FW driver so that you have access to FW settings dialog and are able to change routing, the gain of mic channels, enable/disable phantom power, change ref levels of analog I/O, ..

Not sure whether you need something like this, but I want to mention it for completeness.
A more powerful, flexible, elegant solution might be to sell UFX and FF800 and to upgrade to an UFX+.
Maybe in combination with Octamic XTC and maybe even ADI-2 Pro FS R BE.

Then you have the option to connect UFX+ to your Apple through either TB, USB3 and even with USB2. Addition of Mic or Analog channels can then be performed through MADI or even ADAT.

The Octamic XTC gives you  different types of channels and features:
- Integration into FM FX as Auxdevice (remote control) through MIDI over MADI
- Mic ports, that can be used as line inputs as well
- two additional phones outputs
- 4x AES I/O

The ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (which you could connect e.g. through AES or ADAT) gives you besides an excellent audio quality excellent additional features for your monitoring section (active monitors, phones) and can also act as monitor controller to have more control over the final volume not that 0dB on "Main Out" or "Phones" accidently damage active monitors or your ears.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-08-05
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Re: How to best use a Fireface UFX & a Fireface 800 together

ramses wrote:

Not sure whether you need something like this, but I want to mention it for completeness.
A more powerful, flexible, elegant solution might be to sell UFX and FF800 and to upgrade to an UFX+.
Maybe in combination with Octamic XTC and maybe even ADI-2 Pro FS R BE.

Ramses, many thanks for such a thorough reply.  It's really helpful and has given me a few very good things to think about and consider.
:thumbs!:

  • ramses
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Re: How to best use a Fireface UFX & a Fireface 800 together

Thanks Vangroover, I made some changes to the text, maybe reread ..

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • ramses
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Re: How to best use a Fireface UFX & a Fireface 800 together

In terms of max distance between computer and recording interface
TB: 2m
USB3: 3m
USB2 (UFX+ as 30ch interface without MADI): 5m.

TB might give you a little lesser RTL (but really only a little compared to USB3), see these numbers for Windows ASIO drivers:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/2343-UFX-UFX-RayDAT-Latencies-v2-jpg/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13