Topic: Do different USB ports sound different?

Do different USB ports sound different?

Running a RME ADI-2 pro fs on a AMD X570 Win10 platform. Testing different USB cables and ports with/without USB Isolator. Listening via Phones 3/4 with a DENON AH-D7000.

By far the best sound comes from the Thunderbolt port with some fancy usb cable.
Worst sound comes from Isolator + 2 fancy USB cables.
Medium sound comes from cheap USB cable on USB2 port.
I mean the differences are not subtle at all more like 100€ speakers vs 10.000 € speakers.
Bit-perfect test is passed in any case.

Is that even possbile or am I nuts?

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Wow, that’s interesting. Am following this.

3

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

You have a Pro. So all you have to do is record the analog output while you play back the same file. Then compare these recordings. I bet they will be 100% identical.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Dear MC,

thank you very much for the great input. I performed the test and you are right both recordings do sound equally awesome now. I have to investigate further, what was going on earlier. Maybe I am just nuts and trick my brain into hearing things.

Keep up the great work.

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Just had a similar impression on my BFP FS and it seems one of my USB-hubs introduces some very slight distortion under certain circumstances.

Drove me nuts and I spend more than a hour going through all possible variables, checked with different headphones etc. No hub = clean sound. With hub sometimes distortion in higher frequencies at very low signal levels. It's a powered Anker hub, so not the cheapest of the lot.

Still not sure why and will experiment further.

6

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Check the Settings dialog for USB errors counting up when using the hub.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Could you please specify which settings dialog? Thx.

8

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

BF Pro FS manual chapter 8.1.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Ok thx, seems like this option is not available in MacOS?

10

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Correct.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Ok - thx. Any plans to incorporate this in future Fireface USB versions for Mac?

12

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

No. It has never been a problem in those interfaces, if there were issues they came from a different side (mostly OS). It does exist for USB 3, though. But I agree that in your case it would have been nice to see if there is a relation.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Sorry, I meant the Fireface USB Settings program for Mac. Answer is probably the same.

There's a ton of USB happening on this machine. MBP 4xTB3 ports, two external monitors, two USB-hubs, 3-4 harddrives, printer, ethernet to NAS and audio streaming, iPhone tethering, Babyface.

Quite a mess and figuring out where the issue comes from is a major undertaking. The Babyface is on a downstream hub hanging off of one of the external monitors. Perhaps not ideal.

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Some further investigations yielded the following observation: the distortion is linked to the presence of a tethered iPhone on the USB tree.

Moreover when connecting to the internet via the tethered iPhone and using a messenger (Telegram) every time I hit enter I see a peak centred at 1khz in the Digicheck analyser.

I don't hear anything but there clearly is some kind of signal in the system.

I can do a screen recording demonstrating this if desired.

Mods: pls feel free to move or remove this post if deemed OT. In that case pls inform me where to report.

15 (edited by KaiS 2021-08-26 12:18:29)

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

NoisyNarrowBandDevice wrote:

The Babyface is on a downstream hub hanging off of one of the external monitors. Perhaps not ideal.

This is the most suspicious element.
Try connecting Babyface directly into your PC, with no hub.

Once that works (hopefully), you can try various configurations if it’s possible to use a hub, e.g. sharing a port with a printer shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
Sharing with a monitor is a no-go, as it demands a continuous high data-rate stream.

16 (edited by NoisyNarrowBandDevice 2021-08-26 14:22:59)

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Thx Kai - already moved the device off the monitors hub to another hub.

Problem is I can't directly connect the BFP to the MBP as my BFP was delivered with a faulty USB-C cable (connector is bend and doesn't plug into the USB-C port).

The device was ordered as "B-Ware" at a big German reseller. It was otherwise in perfect condition but I noticed the problem with the cable immediately and raised a ticket with them. They promised to send a new cable but so far nothing happened. Just shot the reseller another email.

Hence I have to use a USB-hub for the time being and can't investigate if the above mentioned tethering phenomen persists when the BFP is connected directly to the Mac.

17 (edited by KaiS 2021-08-27 00:08:18)

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

These cables go for cheap, e.g. 6.49 €:
https://smile.amazon.de/Druckerkabel-sc … amp;sr=8-5

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Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

IMHO time for USB to PC isolation... as using INTONA gear and then proper grounding of the audio gear big_smile

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

KaiS wrote:

These cables go for cheap, e.g. 6.49 €:
https://smile.amazon.de/Druckerkabel-sc … amp;sr=8-5

Good point! Will order one but still expect this to be taken care of under warranty. Also writing in Fora helps - pointed to this entry and the reseller reacted today...;)

20 (edited by KaiS 2021-08-27 23:11:45)

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

hpw wrote:

IMHO time for USB to PC isolation... as using INTONA gear and then proper grounding of the audio gear big_smile

If you are at that point, why not use balanced power lines - the ultimate solution.
A (big) transformer balances both phase and null relatve to ground for all audio devices.
This way floating PSU’s stray currents result in a voltage closer to ground level and causes largely reduced negative effects.

smile smile smile

21 (edited by bejoro 2021-08-28 08:03:45)

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

For small, less power consuming devices an isolating transformer to balance the power line works very well.
But an isolating transformer signifcantly raises the internal resistance of the power line.
This causes an audible loss in dynamic (attack, impulses) with power amps or active speakers. The same effect occurs with passive power line filters.

But if you really need a balanced power line or passive power line filters because of otherwise unsolvable problems you will have to live with it.

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

Switched Mode PSU‘s don’t care about power line resistance or even line voltage. They just compensate.

Power amps with unregulated PSUs might loose some RMS power, but peak power practically only depends on the low load line voltage.

Most households are feed with under-voltage lines.
A balancing lines transformer can compensate or even improve on this, as secondary can be a bit higher than primary.

Additionally, bigger toroidal transformers have very low internal resistance, way below the smaller ones inside the power amps.


The power lines balancing makes a lot of power lines garbage “invisible” for the connected devices, no need for extra filtering (except over-voltage protection).

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

We thoroughly performed blind A/B tests with very powerful isolating transformers and different power amps, 100% success rate, the difference was clearly audible and absolutely not subtle. But we did not use power amps with switched mode PSUs.

24 (edited by hpw 2021-08-28 11:19:07)

Re: Do different USB ports sound different?

KaiS wrote:
hpw wrote:

IMHO time for USB to PC isolation... as using INTONA gear and then proper grounding of the audio gear big_smile

If you are at that point, why not use balanced power lines - the ultimate solution.
A (big) transformer balances both phase and null relatve to ground for all audio devices.
This way floating PSU’s stray currents result in a voltage closer to ground level and causes largely reduced negative effects.

smile smile smile

I prefer ACID 12V/18AH battery so about 4h to run big_smile big_smile no main or else gear crap & RF

Pitta is only, no earth connection pin given O:(