1 Topic by Cybsilon-Pi (edited by Cybsilon-Pi 2021-08-30 10:58:21)

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Topic: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

I’m aware that this might be a really stupid question, however, here I go...

My analog mixer is currently connected to the 1 & 2 inputs of the Fireface UCX II. I would like to free those two inputs for two different synthesizers instead and  plug the mixer in with the Digital Breakout Cable which comes along with the Fireface UCX II. So yeah, it says Digital but while I was googling about AES/EBU I found this text:

"...as an added bonus, you can use your AES cable with all-analog gear too! When it’s not transmitting digital signals, an AES cable will act exactly the same as a standard XLR/microphone cable."

So that got me thinking, can Fireface UCX II maybe also take in analog stereo audio signal through this Digital Breakout Cable? Hey, maybe Fireface UCX II is so smart! Or LOL, I'm so stupid! tongue

2 Reply by MC

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

They talk about the CABLE - which is (basically) a simple balanced microphone one.

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

So there is no way I can plug in my analog mixer with the Digital Breakout Cable to the Fireface UCX II?

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Thats impossible. U have six more analog inputs though. If u get xlr to trs adapters?

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-08-30 12:21:00)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Cybsilon-Pi wrote:

So there is no way I can plug in my analog mixer with the Digital Breakout Cable to the Fireface UCX II?

If I understood you right ... You can not connect a digital to an analog port directly, how shall this work ?
Analog is analog, Digital is digital.

Does your analog mixer have a digital ADAT or SPDIF port ? If not, then this is not possible, then you need to connect it analog. Either unbalanced or balanced.

What mixer do you have ? Would be nice if you could deliver some concrete information, so that this guessing can stop, thanks.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Happy_amateur wrote:

Thats impossible. U have six more analog inputs though.

They are in use. One synth is going in to 3 & 4 and two pedal effects (both stereo) are using 5 & 6 and 7 & 8. I would like to put two synths in to 1 and 2 so that I can choose which ones are using (or not using) the pedal effects and how much.

Happy_amateur wrote:

If u get xlr to trs adapters?

Yeah, something like that was in my mind but forgot to write/mention it. Or I was thinking a cable like this (TRS Male to XLR Male Cable):

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail … 02m-2-foot

I thought maybe I could plug that TRS-plug in to my mixers headphone output and the other end, the XLR male in to the Digital Breakout Cable. But that's not possible?

Hmm... now I just found this --> Analog to Digital Optical Toslink Coaxial Audio Converter Adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/Musou-Digital-Op … amp;sr=8-3

Could I use something like that to connect my mixer to the Fireface UCX II ADAT in?

7 Reply by Cybsilon-Pi (edited by Cybsilon-Pi 2021-08-30 19:07:41)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

ramses wrote:

If I understood you right ... You can not connect a digital to an analog port directly, how shall this work ?
Analog is analog, Digital is digital.

I don't know... when I read that text which I quoted above and found out that there is a cable which would fit between my mixer and the Digital Breakout Cable, like this one:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail … 02m-2-foot

...then I thought maybe there is a chance that the Fireface UCX II / The Port / The Breakout Cable is designed / built / programmed so that it can be used in both ways. I don't have any previous experience about these kinds of digital connections and I have actually vaguely (in the past, in my head) categorised the kind of XLR connections which are in the Digital Breakout Cable as 'something-to-do-with-microphones-and-definitely-analog'. So I took a chance and asked.

ramses wrote:

Does your analog mixer have a digital ADAT or SPDIF port ? If not, then this is not possible, then you need to connect it analog. Either unbalanced or balanced.

What mixer do you have ? Would be nice if you could deliver some concrete information, so that this guessing can stop, thanks.

Sorry, my mixer is really old, Phonic... MM 1002. Here is some info about it:

https://en.audiofanzine.com/analog-mixe … r_reviews/

I bought it about twenty years ago. I have just recently started fulfilling my old dream again... that I would manage to make some music.

But yeah, no ADAT or SPDIF there.

But I just  found this --> Analog to Digital Optical Toslink Coaxial Audio Converter Adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/Musou-Digital-Op … amp;sr=8-3

Could I use something like that to connect my mixer to the Fireface UCX II ADAT in?

(I probably would not record through that system but I would be happy to use it while arranging a tune.)

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-08-30 19:30:31)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Cybsilon-Pi wrote:
ramses wrote:

If I understood you right ... You can not connect a digital to an analog port directly, how shall this work ?
Analog is analog, Digital is digital.

I don't know... when I read that text which I quoted above and found out that there is a cable which would fit between my mixer and the Digital Breakout Cable, like this one:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail … 02m-2-foot

...then I thought maybe there is a chance that the Fireface UCX II / The Port / The Breakout Cable is designed / built / programmed so that it can be used in both ways. I don't have any previous experience about these kinds of digital connections and I have actually vaguely (in the past, in my head) categorised the kind of XLR connections which are in the Digital Breakout Cable as 'something-to-do-with-microphones-and-definitely-analog'. So I took a chance and asked.

Sorry, but this is a pure adapter cable because analog line ports can have plugs for TR/TRS and XLR.

It's insufficient to simply look at the cables plugs .. you also need to look at the type of I/O port that you would connect with such an adapter cable .. and as I said it's completely impossible to simply connect an analog to a digital port.

Thats a complete different technology. You also can't simply connect an AC device to DC power and vice versa.

Cybsilon-Pi wrote:
ramses wrote:

Does your analog mixer have a digital ADAT or SPDIF port ? If not, then this is not possible, then you need to connect it analog. Either unbalanced or balanced.

What mixer do you have ? Would be nice if you could deliver some concrete information, so that this guessing can stop, thanks.

Sorry, my mixer is really old, Phonic... MM 1002. Here is some info about it:

https://en.audiofanzine.com/analog-mixe … r_reviews/

This mixer has only analog ports.

And you have already all of the anlog inputs of the UCX II in use ?

You know that your UCX II has in total 8 analog inputs?
The two mic and two instr inputs in the front can also be used as line inputs as well.

Cybsilon-Pi wrote:

But I just  found this --> Analog to Digital Optical Toslink Coaxial Audio Converter Adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/Musou-Digital-Op … amp;sr=8-3

Could I use something like that to connect my mixer to the Fireface UCX II ADAT in?

(I probably would not record through that system but I would be happy to use it while arranging a tune.)

Could work, might be the case that you need to set the ADAT port to SPDIF on the UCX II.

But I think from a device that costs $15 for TOSLINK to Analog conversion you can't expect an appropriate conversion quality like from an UCX II analog port.

I would add an AD/DA converter to the ADAT port, low cost but very flexible would be this one.
The good thing is, that it is preamp and AD and DA converter.

https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_ada … ragain.htm

You can of course also use a RME converter like a used ADI-2 or ADI-2 FS or even ADI-8 DS MK III.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

ramses wrote:

And you have already all of the anlog inputs of the UCX II in use ?

You know that your UCX II has in total 8 analog inputs?
The two mic and two instr inputs in the front can also be used as line inputs as well.

They are in use. One synth is going in to 3 & 4 and two pedal effects (both stereo) are using 5 & 6 and 7 & 8. I would like to put two synths in to 1 and 2 so that I can choose which ones are using (or not using) the pedal effects and how much.

Thank you for your other clarifications!

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

You're welcome .. btw I added some information to my post https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 63#p175363

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

11 Reply by Cybsilon-Pi (edited by Cybsilon-Pi 2021-08-30 19:55:24)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

ramses wrote:

Could work, might be the case that you need to set the ADAT port to SPDIF on the UCX II.

But I think from a device that costs $15 for TOSLINK to Analog conversion you can't expect an appropriate conversion quality like from an UCX II analog port.

I would add an AD/DA converter to the ADAT port, low cost but very flexible would be this one.
The good thing is, that it is preamp and AD and DA converter.

https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_ada … ragain.htm

You can of course also use a RME converter like a used ADI-2 or ADI-2 FS or even ADI-8 DS MK III.

Thank you for the suggestions! I save those ideas for later. But for now as I'm runnin low on cash, I need something cheaper. Would this work:

https://www.thomann.de/fi/swissonic_con … 24_192.htm

12 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-08-30 20:20:11)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Clocking will become difficult.
I recommend to use the UCX II as clock master, but then you need an AD/DA converter which has besides ADAT output also an ADAT input or alternatively Word clock. For clock synchronization which is required. In that regards I would vote to wait a little and to get the Behringer, plus 2 TOSLINK cables:

UCX II+----- ADAT IN <------------- ADAT OUT ---+ADA8200
          +----- ADAT OUT ------------> ADAT IN  ---+

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

13 Reply by Cybsilon-Pi (edited by Cybsilon-Pi 2021-09-02 07:33:38)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Funny thing... I had somehow forgotten to even think about my previous sound card which actually has been right under the Fireface UCX II the whole time. It's M-Audio Fast Track Ultra and it’s been years since I last looked at its back panel and I didn’t remember if there were any digital connections... and so I looked yesterday evening and there is S/PDIF in & out. I also found an RCA cable... so now my mixer is going into Fast Track Ultra 1 & 2 ports and Fast Track Ultra S/PDIF-out goes into Fireface UCX II S/PDIF-in. I made a test recording (with Cubase Pro 11) and it works! I recorded some beats with a drum machine which is connected to the mixer (and I made the recording with the pedal effects that are connected to Fireface UCX II and everything works fine). And so now I have connected the two synths to the free ports (1 and 2) of the Fireface UCX II like I wanted.

14 Reply by Cybsilon-Pi (edited by Cybsilon-Pi 2021-09-02 14:01:05)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

ramses wrote:

Clocking will become difficult.
I recommend to use the UCX II as clock master, but then you need an AD/DA converter which has besides ADAT output also an ADAT input or alternatively Word clock. For clock synchronization which is required. In that regards I would vote to wait a little and to get the Behringer, plus 2 TOSLINK cables:

UCX II+----- ADAT IN <------------- ADAT OUT ---+ADA8200
          +----- ADAT OUT ------------> ADAT IN  ---+

Hmm... that got me thinking... can you say if it's then possible to use hardware send effects (pedals) the same way I'm already using with Fireface UCX II... I mean if I connect Behringer ADA8200 Ultragain using ADAT/TOSLINK to Fireface UCX II, do I then get 8 more channels to play with freely and to set up external effects the same way and use RME TotalMix FX to control them?

Like explained here (How to use Hardware Send Effects in TotalMix FX):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApwZyRTTmc0

15 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-09-01 22:34:40)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Sorry, no time to look at the video, but to answer your question:

You use the analog inputs and outputs of the ADA8200 in TM FX in the end just like the analog ports. They are just called differently: ADAT1-8 instead of AN1-8. The latency for the additional transfer of the audio data via the internal routing matrix of the UCX II and ADAT between the devices is very (negligible) low here. I don't have the exact values in my head anymore, this was answered here in the forum a few years ago.

The biggest differences will probably be in the AD/DA converters (their specification and converter latency). But also the converter latency is much lower compared to the latency over USB or Firewire, which still depends on the used ASIO buffersize.

You would simply have the huge advantage of having some additional analog ports available, whereby you can use the inputs of the ADA8200 both as mic and line inputs and the ADA8200 even has the same number of inputs and outputs, which is very suitable for your area of application.

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Ok, sounds right, thanks again for the clarifications and information! I couldn’t resist myself and I ordered it already. I have three more guitar effects pedals that I want to attach to this setup (and quite certainly more in the future). So this Behringer ADA8200 seems like the perfect solution for that purpose. Until now, I had thought I would still have to buy some big mixer for this purpose.

But I may have to wait a long time before I get that device. I ordered it from a store here in Finland and the delivery time is currently marked: 'not confirmed'. (last arrived: 27.10.2020) So it doesn't seem very promising... I guess it's the global chip shortage.

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Then good luck that it doesn't take too long ;-)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Maybe you would be better ordering from somewhere else as I just looked at Gear4music and they have over 20 in stock

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

19 Reply by Cybsilon-Pi (edited by Cybsilon-Pi 2021-09-02 16:57:31)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Thanks for the info, I'm thinking about it. I have to use cash now but maybe I can get a friend to order it for me, and I give him/her the cash.

Though it troubles me a bit that gear4music.FI says about the ADA8200: Orderable / Estimated delivery: September 17-20 (and nothing about the stock situation nowhere). And gear4music.COM says: 20+ in stock / Get it tomorrow

Thomann also says 2-3 weeks.

And the price in total would be 193.25 € from gear4music. 174 € if I buy from the Finnish store. Hmm... I think I'll wait a bit.

20 Reply by Cybsilon-Pi (edited by Cybsilon-Pi 2021-09-04 06:40:56)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

ramses wrote:

Clocking will become difficult.
I recommend to use the UCX II as clock master, but then you need an AD/DA converter which has besides ADAT output also an ADAT input or alternatively Word clock. For clock synchronization which is required. In that regards I would vote to wait a little and to get the Behringer, plus 2 TOSLINK cables:

UCX II+----- ADAT IN <------------- ADAT OUT ---+ADA8200
          +----- ADAT OUT ------------> ADAT IN  ---+

Hey, what about Behringer UMC1820? Do you (or anybody else) happen to know if I can use it the same way I can use ADA8200 (i.e. I get 8 extra / separate audio In/Output channels for the Fireface UCX II)?

There's ADAT In/Out on the UMC1820... but not that SYNC section that's included on ADA8200. Maybe that's controlled through the computer? Or is it automatic? I couldn't find that info on Behringers site or from the UMC1820s manual.

And would the UMC1820 work as AD and DA converter as would ADA8200?

Advantages with the UMC1820 would be that I could get it right away, I could use a spare Midi In/Output and there's 6.3 mm jack line outputs instead of XLR which would make it cheaper for me to connect my guitar pedals into the UMC1820 (I have zero XLR cables/plugs).

But in the end, is the UMC1820 as good as the ADA8200? Or does the UMC1820 cause more problems / conflicts with the Fireface UCX II than the ADA8200?

Somehow I get the impression that the ADA8200 is more in demand than the UMC1820.

21 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-09-04 06:58:08)

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

The UMC is a recording interface which introduces another ASIO driver to your system.

You would need to install the Behringer ASIO driver additionally and we can only assume that something like an additional software mixer is being installed for the Behringer, which MAYBE allows you to route your analog inputs to ADAT out and from ADAT to your analog outputs, but this is not clear and the documentation is "non existent".

You can connect a recording interface as preamps, but at the end of the day you can only load one ASIO driver in your DAW.
And the operation through another mixer software makes things only more complicated.
I doubt that this cheap unit supports something like a standalone operation mode, so you would need to have it connected permanently through USB ...

I would use a device which is designed to be a preamp like the ADA8200 and connect it through ADAT without the necessity to add any additional driver / operational software for a 2nd recording interface.

In terms of MIDI I would also trust RME more in terms of performance (timing, low latency).

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Re: Fireface UCX II: XLR AES/EBU input <-- Stereo audio from analog mixer?

Ok, sounds like a trouble (as I assumed). So I'm gonna wait the ADA8200. Thanks!