1 Topic by adbjn (edited by adbjn 2021-09-28 17:16:07)

  • adbjn
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Topic: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

Hi,

I am new to this forum and I need some purchase advice. I hope this is not a stupid question. I have tried to look at the products RME offer but I am at a loss as to how to do what I want to do.

I would like to be able to record 32 line-level inputs (I have multiple synths) at the same time with as low latency as possible in my PC DAW (Cubase). 192kHz on all channels would be preferable to get low latency.

The vision is to build a hybrid home studio setup with just one computer using both VTSs and physical synths at the same time.

I recently asked a similar question on Gearspace and some suggested using a patchbay and just record one synth at a time. However, that is not what I want to do. I want all synths connected and ready to go immediately without hassle.

I have a very good experience of RME products and drivers so far and if possible I would like to continue using RME products. Just to clarify, I do not mean that my experience is vast - just that the experience of the only RME product I have (Babyface Pro) has been pleasant :-)

I do not need much other functionality except to get the audio into the PC as fast as possible and all in parallel.

My PC does not have Thunderbolt and apparently cannot be changed to get it, so whatever solution I choose has to use another means of audio transportation. Anything else would probably work as long as it is fast enough to do 32 x 192kHz.

32 x 192000 x 24 bits uncompressed + protocol overhead translates to roughly 200MBits/sec so not really very much in 2021. USB 3 gen 2 goes as high as 10000MBit/sec, for instance, which is 50 times more than required. So, maybe this is possible over USB 3? Or maybe a PCIe-based solution should be used?

Price is a first priority (it is a home studio and this is just my hobby) and I do not care about the form factor as long as it works. So, rack-mounted, PCIe-card or stand alone unit(s) doesn't really matter much to me. Also I don't mind if I have to use multiple devices.

How would I achieve this? What RME product/products could solve this problem?

Regards,

Johan

  • garry
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

as the synths are going to be line level, i know its not RME, but id be looking at an A32 or 2 https://www.ferrofish.com/product/a32-m … converter/
match that up with a suitable MADI card  https://www.rme-audio.de/hdspe-madi.html or for USB something like the madiface https://www.rme-audio.de/madiface-pro.html

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RME HDSP9652 | | RME Digiface USB
  • adbjn
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

garry wrote:

as the synths are going to be line level, i know its not RME, but id be looking at an A32 or 2 https://www.ferrofish.com/product/a32-m … converter/
match that up with a suitable MADI card  https://www.rme-audio.de/hdspe-madi.html or for USB something like the madiface https://www.rme-audio.de/madiface-pro.html

Thanks for this suggestion. I will look into it.

Maybe this explains why I could not find anything that looked to be just right.

I initially thought I was going to build a Dante network, but from the information I was able to gather it seemed latency would not be as low as with other solutions. I am looking at about 1-2ms latency if possible. I don't want to have to drag around the audio in the DAW after it has been recorded.

At Gearspace I was suggested a Presonus Quantum 4848 which seemed like it would be perfect and very cost effective. Except it requires Thunderbolt, which my computer can't handle. I also would prefer to use RME.

  • garry
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

you could also take a look at the https://www.rme-audio.de/m-32-pro.html

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RME HDSP9652 | | RME Digiface USB

5 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

32 x 192 kHz requires two MADI ports. The HDSPe MADI FX (has three MADI I/O) would be the solution on the computer side, including the lowest latency available.

https://www.rme-audio.de/hdspe-madi-fx.html

Converters with MADI output are available, but not with double MADI out. So using two M-16 AD would do the job.

https://www.rme-audio.de/m-32-m-16-ad.html

Regards
Matthias Carstens
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6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-09-29 09:32:17)

  • ramses
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

Hi Johan,
cool setup that you are planning.

The HDSPe MADI FX is a very nice card indeed.
I recommend to add an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE to the setup, you can connect it through the AES port.

Reasons:

  • 1. the HDSPe MADI FX has only two analog unbalanced ports that you could use for either phones or active monitors, although unbalaced connections to active monitors would not be my preferred solution to connect them.

  • 2. you spend a lot of money to record in 192 kHz sample rate, then you surely also want the best results for your monitoring section in terms of quality of the D/A conversion. So IMHO it would only be consequent to add an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE to the setup, there isn't any better solution like that.

Overview of the proposed setup:

HDSPe MADI FX <----- MADI1 IN ----------------- M-16 AD @192 kHz <----- synthesizers
                         <----- MADI2 IN ----------------- M-16 AD @192 kHz <----- synthesizers
                         ------- AES OUT ------------------ ADI-2 Pro FS R BE --------------> Active Monitors
                                                                                                      --------------> Phones 1
                                                                                                      --------------> Phones 2
Clock Master.....................................................Clock Slaves...........

Further information about HDSPe MADI FX and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE you can also find in my blog, maybe you find some interesting information therein:

How to integrate an ADI-2 Pro into your setup (with config suggestions): https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

Some interesting information about the ADI-2 DAC/Pro, including information about some very nice features:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ses-EN-DE/

Review about a setup with HDSPe MADI FX: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … Pro-FS-BE/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • adbjn
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

Thanks for your suggestions.

The price for the HDSPe MADI FX + 2 x M-16 and ADI-2 Pro is a bit high for this home studio project but I am thinking maybe I could get sufficient latency with the products below, although with a lower sampling frequency (but it is probably good enough for me). Maybe I was wrong to say I wanted 192kHz because I realize it will cost - a lot. I am primarily after low latency - but not at any cost of course.

Computer <--- USB2 <----- Madiface Pro
                                                   |<-------  M-32 AD (32 inputs)
                                                   | -------> Headphones
                                                   | -------> Studio monitors

Would this be somewhat equivalent (except for sampling frequency)?

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-09-29 17:25:07)

  • ramses
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

If double speed is fine then you could also get the latest model in 1 RU which also supports AVB which might be interesting for you in the future:
https://www.rme-audio.de/m-32-pro.html
https://www.rme-audio.de/de_m-32-pro.html €3589

Then you also need two XLR breakout boxes, because the M32 AD Pro uses DB-25 plugs:
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_dtox_16_i.htm €329

I personally like the display, redundant power supply is also a nice feature.

MADIface Pro is end of sale, maybe you can still get one here:
https://www.rme-shop.com/acatalog/RME-- … -3557.html

Driver support should be no issue, as even the latest UCX II is using the same USB driver (and we know RME has long lasting driver support, FF400/800 >20y).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • vinark
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

In your case a digiface usb with 4X8 adat channels would be fine too. And with RME drivers it is not necessary to adjust recordings for latency at all. I don,t have as many synths as you but my 16 adat channels work perfectly.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • ramses
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

vinark wrote:

In your case a digiface usb with 4X8 adat channels would be fine too. And with RME drivers it is not necessary to adjust recordings for latency at all. I don,t have as many synths as you but my 16 adat channels work perfectly.

Just one note. Madiface USB doesn't support word clock. Using this interface makes it necessary to stick to the older products M-16 or M-32, which have an ADAT Sync input (which is not the case for the M-32 Pro).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2007-09-20
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Re: 32 x input channels at 192kHz - what RME-unit(s) to buy?

I'm also very interested in something similar.

Ideally, I'd have 32 line inputs into my DAWs, for a whole stack of synths and drum machines. I don't need 192KHz. 96KHz is plenty enough.

I currently have 3 HDSPe cards in a Sonnet chassis, 2 Multiface 2 and 1 older Multiface 1. That gives me 24 inputs, which is not too bad.

...but on Mac, I have to combine the cards via an aggregate. Some DAWs (e.g. Cubase) refuse to support multiple cards.

I also have a Fireface UC, for what it's worth.

The M32 AD solution sounds great, but possibly a little outside of my budget. Any other ways forward? Thanks!