• Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 31

Topic: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

I received my device back from warranty repair yesterday. The encoder had been replaced as it didn't work properly.

After playing around with it for a while it seems like the device plays things louder than before. For example when I play back Time Burton's Nightmare Before Christmas OST from the same WAV files as before now I'm happy listening to it at around 50 dBr while before the warranty the same soundtrack I needed to ramp the sound all the way to 40 to 35 dBr. The playback is done by the same software via Deadbeef v. 1.8.4.

The bit perfect test passes on another MPV, which has a similar volume to Deadbeef. However, it does not pass with Deadbeef.

I've noticed a similar thing happening with all audio sources that everything just seems louder than before. The above mentioned soundtrack is just one I clearly remember the details from before.

The auto reference is on just like before. The device is connected via USB to the computer, but the playback is the same via optical. Previously I used RCA while currently I'm using XLR to connect the ADI 2 DAC to the power amplifier.

I've always adjusted the volume on the device itself so the output from my computer is at 100%.

I'm using the same headphones as before.

So is there something I'm overseeing that would have an effect on the volume in this fashion? All the settings had been reset during the warranty repair, so it's possible I've missed something I had done previously.

2 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2021-10-31 07:07:10)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Shikyo,

What about "Dynamic Loudness"?

You're listening at -50 dbr?  Whoa!  There have been HUNDREDS (if not thousands) of Posts here stressing the importance of proper Gain-Staging, and -50 dbr is simply wrong. Right there I think something is Funky!  There would appear to be Great Gobs of S/N being thrown away, and if we could get your normal listening level somewhere in the -15dbr (+/- ) range  it would be good. Dynamic Loudness defaults to -35dbr, so it seems that your concern is related to this.   Dynamic Loudness is the greatest...when used properly.  wink  Else, when mis-applied it could make things seem Louder to you.

Take a look at your User Manual!

This isn't difficult.  It's all in the Book!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 31

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Curt962 wrote:

Shikyo,

What about "Dynamic Loudness"?

You're listening at -50 dbr?  Whoa!  Right there I think something is Funky!  There would appear to be Great Gobs of S/N being thrown away, and if we could get your normal listening level somewhere in the -15dbr+ range  it would be good. Dynamic Loudness defaults to -35dbr, so it seems that your concern is related to this.   Dynamic Loudness is the greatest...when used properly.  wink

Take a look at your User Manual   


Curt

I'd love to get it closer to zero, but currently I just don't see how it's going to happen. In fact, that soundtrack is probably one of the quietest I have, so everything else is generally even lower like 55-60 dBr. With a "quiet" movie I might be able to go upto 40 dBr. For the most part I'm somewhere around 50 +-5 dBr.

Also decided to test out with IEM through its dedicated jack. Same soundtrack with dynamic loudness disabled and the listening volume is 45 dB.

My headphones through the IEM jack with dynamic loudness disable and the listening volume is 17.5 dB.

So maybe I should just consider using the IEM jack with these headphones?

I didn't have this combination of power amplifier and the ADI-2 DAC before it left for the warranty repair, but during the last 24 hours its normal volume seems to be somewhere around 40 dBr as well.

Sadly, I doubt it's the dynamic loudness as even with it turned off it doesn't make a difference. I did adjust the low vol ref to 60 dBr as otherwise I'd always be below it. Though, I do need to fine tune it some more, but nothing that would make such a huge difference to the audio volume. I do love the feature and one of the reasons why I bought the ADI-2 DAC in the first place.

The manual is one of the best I've ever read. RME did an amazing job with it.

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-10-31 08:56:18)

  • KaiS
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  • Registered: 2020-02-05
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Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

First step would be getting the Bit Test passed.
This is purely related to you computer setting, which seems to be screwed.
Did you adjust anything during the absence of ADI-2?

And changing the power amp and interconnect could have made the (level) difference too.

Don’t connect USB AND Optical.
This has the potential to confuse things.

Start with the one you really use.
Then sort out the Bit Test issue.
When everything has settled you can reconnect the other in case you need it.


Once this is solved, you can be sure the level you have is valid and go on further here, CASE2 is for you:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

KaiS's Website

5 Reply by Shikyo (edited by Shikyo 2021-10-31 09:47:04)

  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 31

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

KaiS wrote:

First step would be getting the Bit Test passed.
This is purely related to you computer setting, which seems to be screwed.
Did you adjust anything during the absence of ADI-2?

And changing the power amp and interconnect could have made the (level) difference too.

Don’t connect USB AND Optical.
This has the potential to confuse things.

Start with the one you really use.
Then sort out the Bit Test issue.
When everything has settled you can reconnect the other in case you need it.


Once this is solved, you can be sure the level you have is valid and go on further here, CASE2 is for you:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

I did change from pulseaudio to pipewire as the sound service. However, there was no change like this observed while I was using Fireface UCX, so I do not believe the issue is related to this.

In what way would this cause problems? At first I used the optical by itself before plugin the USB. Currently both of them are plugged in and I am using USB output. Is it enough to disable the optical or is it necessary to remove the cable?

The bit test passes with MPV and its volume level is comparable to Deadbeef. However, I'll see if I could get it to pass with Deadbeef as well.

I believe I will be needing some attenuators as the power amp will not go any lower than it already is. Am I correct in assuming it won't matter if it's connected to the amplifier or ADI-2 DAC?

EDIT: So I messed around some more with Deadbeef and it now passes the bit-test as well.

  • KaiS
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Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Shikyo wrote:
KaiS wrote:

First step would be getting the Bit Test passed.
...
Once this is solved, you can be sure the level you have is valid and go on further here, CASE2 is for you:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

I believe I will be needing some attenuators as the power amp will not go any lower than it already is. Am I correct in assuming it won't matter if it's connected to the amplifier or ADI-2 DAC?

EDIT: So I messed around some more with Deadbeef and it now passes the bit-test as well.

Bit Test passed - everything is OK!

If your power amp doesn’t have level controls, passive attenuators are highly suggested.
They work either position.
In theory they are better placed on the back of the power amp, but you won’t notice a difference.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 31

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

KaiS wrote:

Bit Test passed - everything is OK!

If your power amp doesn’t have level controls, passive attenuators are highly suggested.
They work either position.
In theory they are better placed on the back of the power amp, but you won’t notice a difference.

It's already at it's lowest, so attenuators is the solution for that.

Either way it won't make a difference to me, so might as well put them were they are ever so slightly better.

  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Shikyo wrote:
KaiS wrote:

Bit Test passed - everything is OK!

If your power amp doesn’t have level controls, passive attenuators are highly suggested.
They work either position.
In theory they are better placed on the back of the power amp, but you won’t notice a difference.

It's already at it's lowest, so attenuators is the solution for that.

Either way it won't make a difference to me, so might as well put them were they are ever so slightly better.


You did mentioned at the first post that you connect XLR instead of RCA before, will it be the case?

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen
  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 31

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Johannes AU wrote:

You did mentioned at the first post that you connect XLR instead of RCA before, will it be the case?

XLR is the only input accepted by my current power amplifier. The RCA was used when I still used my old integrated amplifier that only accepted RCA.

10 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2021-10-31 12:33:32)

  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Shikyo wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:

You did mentioned at the first post that you connect XLR instead of RCA before, will it be the case?

XLR is the only input accepted by my current power amplifier. The RCA was used when I still used my old integrated amplifier that only accepted RCA.


I see, XLR output is 6dB higher, so it will be louder, but if the case is at the RME Dac headphones output, it will be a different story.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen
  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Shikyo,

Let's get you sorted out!  There's already been some useful comments, and as KaiS notes, a Successful Bit Test is mandatory. Without that, we're only guessing.

Johannes points out the 6db level difference between RCA and XLR.  All true.

What on Earth now makes anything seem Louder?  Hmm?

Check your settings.  The I/O Menu is a Treasure Trove of things that could possibly influence your perceptions.  Take a look, and let us know. wink

Best!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • KaiS
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Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Johannes AU wrote:

... if the case is at the RME Dac headphones output, it will be a different story.

Fortunately, for the headphones there are three level options, in order from high to low level:

• 6.3 mm hi power
• 6.3 mm low power
• IEM

These are not limited to one or the other headphones type.
Select the one that fits best, level wise.
Other than level all three sound the same.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Thanks for that KaiS. smile

It's been a Long Week. I was beginning to function on Three (3) Brain Cells.  Now I'm back to only Two (2)

Maybe the new Encoder needs more Break in?  smile smile

Ok. Enough of me. 

Shikyo, listen to the guidance the others are giving.  The "answer" is close at hand.

Best to All,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 31

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Curt962 wrote:

Thanks for that KaiS. smile

It's been a Long Week. I was beginning to function on Three (3) Brain Cells.  Now I'm back to only Two (2)

Maybe the new Encoder needs more Break in?  smile smile

Ok. Enough of me. 

Shikyo, listen to the guidance the others are giving.  The "answer" is close at hand.

Best to All,

Curt

I've gotten plenty excellent advice here.

As for the answer, I think it's just me using the IEM output for the headphones rather than the headphone jack. As a bonus I even got some tips for the power amplifier, which I'm glad as I didn't really feel like blowing out my ear or the speakers accidentally.

So thank you for all your guidance!

15 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2021-10-31 18:18:28)

  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: ADI 2 DAC seems louder

Shikyo wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

Thanks for that KaiS. smile

It's been a Long Week. I was beginning to function on Three (3) Brain Cells.  Now I'm back to only Two (2)

Maybe the new Encoder needs more Break in?  smile smile

Ok. Enough of me. 

Shikyo, listen to the guidance the others are giving.  The "answer" is close at hand.

Best to All,

Curt

I've gotten plenty excellent advice here.

As for the answer, I think it's just me using the IEM output for the headphones rather than the headphone jack. As a bonus I even got some tips for the power amplifier, which I'm glad as I didn't really feel like blowing out my ear or the speakers accidentally.

So thank you for all your guidance!


Not sure if there is a headphone output at you Amp, if so, I guess it will be a bit louder as well if the Amp is connected to XLR output of the RME Dac, but you can turn it down anytime you want at the Amp if it has a volume knob, same as in the RME Dac headphones out, no matter it is Hi Power, Low Power or IEM, if it is too loud for your ears, just turn it down at the main knob of the RME Dac.

Enjoy the Music !

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen