Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

fierylungs wrote:

I would even financially support Linux support. That is, if RME were to fund raise or even charge for a driver, I'd throw down in a ♥ beat.

Me too. If a payment wall is the only option to get Linux support, then it is. As long as the price is fair. I’ll be happy to pay for it if I know things will work out.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

RME Support wrote:

Mind that the UCX does work perfectly fine with Linux in CC mode - sans Totalmix, but otherwise it can be used as it is....

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Just trying to understand this statement. So "class compliant" means that interface will work on linux and it's just Total Mix that is the missing link? If this is the case then doesn't that mean that I can get all the routing etc. sorted in UCX or UFX when connected to a Windows computer and then just run in Linux? That might be perfect for my application which is for the UFX to be part of a convolution engine for a speaker system.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Quote: “I can get all the routing etc. sorted in UCX or UFX when connected to a Windows computer and then just run in Linux?”


I don’t believe it to be rocket science.

And recall that the Hubble space telescope ran on DOS.

But friends working for Elon Musk inform me that using a number of programming languages for differing facilities, Space X’s Falcon 9, Dragon 2 and Starlink run on Linux, (albeit a stripped-down version).

There is an essential salient point to actively consider here and it’s that there are very substantial, totally practical, reasons, some, safety related, for utilising a Linux Operating System, as opposed to a Microsoft Windows Operating System.


The main one being that in outer space, astronauts are not able to open Windows.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

I need these drivers for Debian and RME has had nothing but excuses since 2018. For 3 years you have been too busy to compile a set of drivers for one Linux distro? Not one has been released in the last 3 years!

I will NOT be buying a new computer just to install Winblows 11, and Winblows 10 has a deadline to shut off support in a couple years.

Linux support MUST become a priority if you want to retain your customers. Making good audio interfaces only goes so far if you don't care about your customers post sales.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Quote: “Making good audio interfaces only goes so far if you don't care about your customers post sales.”


With respect, this statement is just about as totally mendacious as a statement could be.

RME’s stellar reputation is built upon a solid history of designing, manufacturing and supporting its products faithfully, decades after other manufacturers would have ceased to.

If you have a good point or argument to make, make it in manner that is truthful and can be respected. In a way that is convicting and convincing. But you won’t achieve that by positing clearly recognisable, blatant untruths.

If I might seek to help you out here as you clearly need assistance, the biggest weakness in your argument would appear to be the fact that when users purchased their RME equipment, they did so, in the crystal clear knowledge that Linux was not supported.

But still went ahead and purchased them none the less, recognising RME’s superlative balance in quality and value.


After they were purchased, a relatively small number users made the unilateral decision to move to an entirely different computing operating system. An operating system that RME has never supported.

Subsequently complaining that the product they knowingly purchased did not support Linux Operating System, does not support Linux.  Such a scenario scripted as a play, would normally be described as a farce.

What’s really at work here, is the simple economics of market forces in a small company with strictly limited resources.

It has to remain focussed upon its core business opportunities.


Its utterly unreasonable that simply because someone decided to change their operating system, they should complain that a product they purchased knowing the operating system they decided to change to was not supported, means that “RME doesn’t care about its customers or support its products”. Its compete and utter tosh!

In Shakespeare play Hamlet, Queen Gertrude responds to the insincere overacting of a character in a play within a play by stating:

“The lady doth protest too much, me thinks”.


It would be more sincere if you admitted, “my product was never designed or intended to be used for Linux, but I changed to that Operating system anyway, so now, I have created some thing of a problem for myself.”


I fully appreciate that there are people who would like Linux drivers.

But with all due respect, if they complain, they do themselves a great disservice.

1: by virtue of their clear fore knowledge and understanding of product specification pre-purchase.

2: The poorly argued case they make, not taking into account the market place economic factors governing such business decisions.

3: Andi n particular by miscreant attempts of transference of problems arising from their personal subsequent decisions to RME, falsely describing the company in a poor light.


The only people they actually show up in a bad light light is themselves

Take personal ownership and responsibility for your decisions.

Don’t blame RME for your personal subsequent choices.

Its unreasonable and unfair to a good company.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Linux support cannot be obtained by blaming each other and the manufacturer here. Instead, we could discuss how much work is required to support Linux and how to get there. On the other hand, we might be wondering how to get more users covered (More Linux users). I know the situation is frustrating, but one day it will happen. So the thing is, Am I alive to see it. But surely one of the RME users is. The only thing we can do is hope and ask politely. And hope again. The only thing we can do is hope and ask politely. And hope again.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Quote: “The only thing we can do is hope and ask politely.”


My understanding is, that there has been a profound shortage of good, experienced programmers, for some considerable time.

Not simply good programmers, but also programmers whose salary expectations, directly correspond with the smaller budgets that specialist companies can afford.

I know programmers who are at this moment totally inundated with work, their hours elongated as the work continues to pile up. I am told that this situation has been exacerbated as certain large companies have stooped to poaching programmers from smaller companies, with remaining loyal staff, facing backlogs of work.

At times, the remaining programmers are permitted to have holidays.

Inconvenient to business as this is, it seems churlish to deny them.


There are genuine reasons smaller companies need to clearly focus on the absolute priorities for their business.

Almost everyday some bright spark has an idea for an extra feature they would like to be incorporated into a product, that few others, if any at all, require.

Whilst on occasion, some ideas are actually implementable with relative ease, they are likely to be the exception, rather than the rule, because of the reasons described above.

RME products seem to me to have an extraordinary advantage over many other manufacturers products. Its that an immensely profound amount of attention has been focussed on their initial design concept.

The targeted consumer for their product ranges, their expectations and requirements have been analysed with meticulous care and fully provided for.  Such that implementation of their product designs, pack so much into so little space, with such efficiency, that additions requested later, would often necessitate a complete redesign.

Although, it is also true to say that their brilliantly conceived designs often provide for future developments where possible, such is the excellence of their implementation.

The late Rupert Neve intimated “implementation is everything”.


Once series production is under way, to make even a most minor change in the major industries I have an interest in, would cost many, many, millions to implement.

What new product development, necessary existing product update, or customers service needs, do you believe RME should bring to a halt, in order to address the requests in this thread?

How much work, far more important to the sustainability, future development and expansion of their business should they abandon? How much will that really cost in terms of losing competitive edge to other manufacturers and lost timing in product to market schedules?

If they were able to afford to hire more good programmers and the cost distributed to existing Windows and Macintosh users by way of higher product prices, making their products less competitive in the market place, losing that unique niche’ of quality, features and value, would that be a responsible decision for a CEO to make?

And how fraternally equitable would that be for the overwhelming masses, all non-Linux users, the people that faithfully bought their product to use within its stated specification parameters, who would pay such a heavy price in such circumstances?


By the way, blaming people is not my style, pointing out the sophism in fallacious arguments is. So, here’s another I would respectfully request you to consider.

Quote: “we could discuss how much work is required to support Linux and how to get there.”


On the surface, this statement seems sweet reason itself.

However, it contains an implicit, underlying, basic false assumption.

That is, after discussion and work, it is possible to arrive at the sought result.

The foreseeable, unforeseen problem that belies this statement, is of course that having provided Linux Drivers. Daily, weekly, monthly, annually ongoing demands for support, future development, and customer service requests will require the services of highly specialised programmers to address.

We have already established, there is a world-wide shortage of such talented individuals.


Put simply.

With respect, you imagine that developing Linux Drivers is all that is required. You see it as an arrival platform. A final destination.

Whereas, in reality, it is nothing of the sort. Understood correctly, it is in fact merely a departure platform, the beginning of a journey.

And the entire necessary aspects of providing completely adequate resources, on an ongoing basis for an additional Operating System, are involved.


Please appreciate, I am not trying to argue with you.

Rather, to highlight the fact that the simplicity with which this issue appears to be viewed by certain Linux users, is wholly delusional.

The bigger picture of the world in which the commercial manufacturing industry thrives, is far, far more complex altogether. That is the world in which RME has to compete.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Well maybe the Linux community ends up doing things themselves and these devices are for them but just shells for their endless creativity.

There is now a huge shortage of components in the world, many things can change very quickly. The same goes for the software side. We are living in interesting and also scary times.

Opensource may show its power in a surprising way. Because product development is spread around the world. To countless projects and communities that interact with each other

59 (edited by strathamer 2021-12-04 09:19:22)

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

I also really need my hardware to be supported on Linux. It's crazy to read that customers have been asking for this support for almost 15 years and that it's being ignored. RME is recognized as high quality material and is not available on the most qualitative platform on the market. This is nonsense.

Everything in my hardware and software is supported on Linux except my Fireface 802 RME ! Please listen to your customers and give us a basic first version of TotalMix!

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Hi there… just found this discussion. I wanted to add that once there were different times and I still benefit from those. I actually use an RME Digi PCI card since 2006. It does have official Linux support. This was the last card that didn't have TotalMix yet I think. It is remarkable how long-lasting this device is, my PC runs basically for many hours every day and it's the 3rd or 4th PC that this card lives in. Me and myself, I quit using Windows around 1998, and with the RME card in 2006 took the route to music production on Linux, using Ardour and nowadays Mixbus. I use those via ADAT with a Yamaha 01v96i in my small studio room.

Just recently I bought a Fireface 400 used because ffado-mixer on Linux actually does operate its TotalMix functions. Of course it is tough to get Firewire still to work, not due to the software, but due to the hardware – I use a PC Express card in an old laptop currently. It is sad that the current Fireface series can't give me this functionality via USB.

So far I had been using a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8, which in its early generations also has full Linux support for its matrix mixer. However, even though Focusrite makes good products, I wanted to go further in quality. After buying some excellent microphones I didn't want to be bothered by questioning my preamps and converters any more.

I'm not sure if this is possible, but if a Linux version of TotalMix could be open source, this might put part of the maintenance load off to the community. Like compiling packages for several distributions, or adapting to never versions of libc and whatnot. After all, the RME Digi driver, which btw. for Windows is available until Win 7 32bit, lives in the Linux kernel happily forever.

It's a sad thing though, that on Linux, developers usually don't understand the needs of pro audio users. I've had plenty of discussions on the quality of plugins and why I use Windows VSTs on Linux, they said it's all there as native Linux stuff what you need and I keep saying: Yes, but it doesn't sound good. And then it turns out that you'd need 10 years of coding training plus 15 years of pro audio experience to hear what I need… and I guess these are the Linux developers that are impossible to get. Me and myself, I quit any coding some years ago in order to be able to focus on audio (and video).

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Hi everyone, I would like to add my thoughts to this issue. I'm a software engineer and do both some podcasting for fun and since I'm building several (language) learning Apps for customers I also do audio recordings for those apps to make them more interactive.

I would very much love to see a solution to access the DSP capabilities of RME devices from Linux. The Class Compliant mode is already a great step to be able to use Linux as a platform. Still many applications like podcasting or recording a dialog for an App with several people requires monitoring and mixing directly in the hardware which is not possible at this time when using Linux. This can only be done properly with Totalmix.

Because many RME devices now support CC mode it should not be required to build a low level driver for Linux anyway. CC is sufficient to read and write low latency audio streams to and from the hardware. No need to reinvent the wheel here. (still would be great to get CC mode on some more devices but let's not get greedy)

As software engineer I totally understand that it is not always easy to port a software to another platform depending on the architecture and frameworks used to build the application and thus it might be too much effort to port Totalmix to Linux. On the other hand Totalmix is already available on Windows and Mac OS and I would guess that there are not two isolated implementations but a single implementation using cross platform tooling and only platform specific implementations for the low level driver parts when necessary.

Still I can understand that RME does not invest the time and money to create a Linux version of Totalmix. Linux is still not as big as a target platform as Windows and Mac OS. But as other members wrote in this thread it should be possible for RME to release the specifications of the communication protocol between Totalmix and the device. Making these specs public should not reveal any internals of the hardware or firmware that might be considered company secrets. With the specs available there will surely be people willing to create an open source implementation of the communication protocol as well as a user interface that lets users access the capabilities of the device similar to Totalmix.

I do understand that you RME might be a bit reluctant to share those specs but I believe this would actually increase the number of RME users and would open new opportunities for additional revenue streams. For example the specs could be released under a license that only allows using the protocol in a non-commercial implementation and explicitly denying all official support from RME for this implementation(s). At the same time the license could allow commercial use but only when the implementing party pays a license fee. This might attract other parties that would like to implement hardware control solutions for the devices with more functionality than the Arc.

If RME would be willing to do this at some point I would love to work on an open source implementation and I'm sure there are others that would join such a project as well.

cheers tupel

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Just adding my +1 for this. Would be really nice with official Linux support.

The mention of running Totalmix in a browser for a more system-agnostic use seems like an idea worth exploring. That means you could potentially also control your RME device via a tablet, phone or a laptop, just as long as it's connected to the same network.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

If I could only get one Christmas present, it would be Totalmix for that.
https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=68136

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

+1 !!

I'm musician and sound engineer, I work mostly with sound creation, diffusion (spatialization), live performances, theater live music and sound design, also field and music recording.
I'm now working in a studio, where we plan to build a Linux/GNU system beside our totally-analog system and Pyramix.
I use mostly Ardour, Bitwig (which changed my linux-audio-life!!), Reaper, 1000 plugins, Pure Data, REW and other great tools.

I'm working with Linux, and ONLY Linux since 2006, and when I see where it is going with other OS, I'd prefer to stop digital production rather than change.

I'm happy to see a lot of people use and plan to use Linux professionally!

I need a new sound device since my good old HDSP Multiface has become unusable as my new computer won't provide Expresscard slot...
A bit sad about that: it was the most stable system I experienced with Linux, I used it >10 years, with almost no xruns, incredibly low latencies, never crashed Jack. No USB class compliant material gave me such results, even pro (01V96i...).

And it was a nice old time when RME and ALSA collaborated for a driver and graphic tools which work very good!!!

My first idea was to buy a small only-digital interface (like Digiface), with different converters / preamps following my different needs.
But there are no driver for Linux.
so I'm considering a Fireface, but the lack of control is a pain...

Some people seem to get tense, let's continue to be friendly and cordial.
Just understand we defend a system which was always considered in audio world "only for nerds", "experimental", "with poor tools". And now people admit it could be as valuable as others (no better no worse), but we are still and still missing serious hardware support.

Hope this helps!
an RME fan

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

100% agreed that we should be friendly people. Also we should understand that RME is a tremendously huge company, so I think they can't just do some stuff because they have staff getting bored otherwise. ;-)

The Linux audio thing is a sad chicken&egg story. There are plenty of good tools available these days. In the last couple of days I did a recording with RME gear and the next weeks will feature mixdown sessions in Mixbus and I won't miss a thing. However, I'm mostly mixing "real" recordings, so instruments via microphones etc. - talk software synthesizers or even Melodyne, you're quite alone on Linux still. Even though it's getting better. Linux is not an important market in pro audio, so there are not as many products for Linux, so Linux doesn't become a relevant market in pro audio…

Me & myself, I quit using Windows in 1999 or so and I won't be going back. But where will I got to once my RME Digi 9636 or my Fireface 400 are dead and gone?

Well I guess, it will be DANTE then. I ordered my first DANTE-enabled mixing console some months ago, but digital consoles and electronics crisis... perhaps I will get it somewhen in 2023? ;-)

It would be sad to have to do without RME at some point.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Will UAD be the first pro interfaces we can buy with propper linux support?
Apparently they are counting potential users...
https://www.change.org/p/linux-support- … igned=true

67 (edited by ramses 2022-01-18 11:31:13)

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Thanks for sharing, here my personal view on this, in case that you are interested:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 49#p181649

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Chiming in to say that I'd love to see first-party Linux support.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

+1 for Linux Support - for the time being just ad CC Mode to the Interfaces that don't support it yet. Btw the Digiface Dante would be the only USB Dante Solution with more than two Channels on the Market. If that's not a selling point i don't know...

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

Linux is ok, but BSDs would be even better.  Particularly OpenBSD, which has outstanding audio support that is minimal and simple.

Re: Official Linux drivers/tools a possibility?

I too would love to see linux drivers for the Madi FX. Even if it would only be CC.
And i would pay for it too.