1 (edited by ramses 2021-12-10 16:23:54)

Topic: RME FPGA based USB3/2 interface

Although USB is in the market for very long there are here and there still issues in the implementation of USB in "communication chips" and computer "chipsets" in terms of reliable audio transfers.

On the recording interface side everything is under RME's control because USB communication is being performed by the FGPA and can be flashed with a new firmware in case of any error.

I am really waiting for RME to produce their own USB3 and USB2 compatible FPGA based PCIe card to have things even more under their control also the computer driver. The code for USB and PCIe communication has already been written, is already part of RME products.

It would IMHO even not hurt if only those USB transfer modes and features would be implemented, that are required to reliably operate an RME interface (and nothing else) to make things not too complicated...

Rationale: even if e.g. some USB3 cards/chipsets have been tested by RME to work with certain RME products like UFX+, then this can only be regarded as a snapshot,  as chipsets and drivers are being updated and this is something which is out of control of RME/customer and especially driver updates are something which can happen quite often and can cause issues.

I personally think that this would definitively be another milestone to achieve even higher quality and predictability of audio transport, if communication up to the PCIe socket of a computer is under RME's hood.

Especially for studios / professionals this could bring more stability directly after purchase and in case of driver updates because then its RMEs own HW, firmware and driver. As studio time is a precious resource, but at the end everybody would benefit from it.

Maybe this could even be the foundation for RME's own more advanced transfer protocols optimized for stability and realtime demands of audio transport.

Using standard hardware and communication protocols like USB and Firewire are needed for sure for interoperability and customer acceptance.

My idea goes one step further which might/should guarantee hassle free communication plus even better scalability in terms of the number of channels (if the power of the FPGA would allow for a little headroom).

After that there can only issues remain that the mainboard is complete crap in terms of interrupt handling / pcie communication which I would regard as less likely.

Another advantage might be that RME could maybe tweak then it's own driver to run tad a bit longer to be able to work on the audio workload more efficient and maybe to be able to compensate by that the bad behaviour of other drivers (nVidia, network, ...) doing the same.

Just a few thoughts, hope you like them..

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME FPGA based USB3/2 interface

…the problems you’re describing are the reasons why i’m still using my good ol’ multiface via thunderbolt…when pcie is still regarded as the most „stable“ connection i‘m asking myself why there is only one rme interface that supports thunderbolt…is it really the fee that companies have to pay when using this technology?…i’d love to buy a half-sized ufx+!!!…i wasn‘t aware that you can „connect“ usb with the pcie socket like you‘ve suggested…

3 (edited by ramses 2021-12-10 17:13:58)

Re: RME FPGA based USB3/2 interface

Scheffkoch wrote:

i‘m asking myself why there is only one rme interface that supports thunderbolt

From what I know from forum.
RME doesn't want that customers have to pay for something that is not really needed from technical perspective and would only make the product more expensive.
If you look e.g. at the MADIface Pro then you will see that RME is able to support up to 68 channels with USB2 .... because *they can*.
Other vendors driver programming skills are maybe not so advanced, therefore they tend to use e.g. Thunderbolt even if the number of channels are very low.
But then you also see that those interfaces have directly a higher price tag although they are not that good in terms of technical data and features.
And Thunderbolt has not only advantages...
The cables are very expensive and may only be 2m long. In my setup with recording interfaces to the left and PC to the right I need at minimum 3m. For this USB3 is perfect because it still allows 3m cables according to standards.

Scheffkoch wrote:

i wasn‘t aware that you can „connect“ usb with the pcie socket like you‘ve suggested…

I am talking about something like a normal USB PCIe card (same as Firewire PCIe card) with the exception that it should not have a standard 3rd party USB controller on it but - like on any RME recording interface - an FPGA which is programmable by RME to perform USB communication. Because USB controller / mainboard chipset can not be reprogrammed/flashed. You have to live with any potential hw/design bug or error in the driver. As it is 3rd party you can't fix it and need to find workarounds (getting other card or mainboard/chipset combination).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME FPGA based USB3/2 interface

…thanks for the explanation!…

Re: RME FPGA based USB3/2 interface

Scheffkoch wrote:

…thanks for the explanation!…

You're welcome.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

6 (edited by ramses 2021-12-10 18:12:26)

Re: RME FPGA based USB3/2 interface

And not to forget .. still many computers have no thunderbolt port. Thunderbolt can not be added like any other pci/pcie card. For e.g. the display part and maybe also other things it needs a special connector on the mainboard for an additional cable between mainboard and Thunderbolt card and it needs support for that in the BIOS. So ... even a Bios upgrade and a Thunderbolt card would not bring you Thunderbolt support.
IMHO this is a real crap design.
They should have make it possible to use Thunderbolt also as PCIe expansion alone without the display part to be able to upgrade any computer with PCIe x4 socket with it.
It's maybe best if TB is integrated into the chipset not needing any expansion cards or patch cables.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13