Topic: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

I am sure this will be trivial. I am using Digiface USB with 3x ADA8200 interfaces and 1xUR824 interface. ADAT cables seem to be hooked up correctly - in Totalmix I see activity on the correct input channels. But I have no activity on the output channels and of course there is no audio coming from the Digiface Phones output :-(.
I was looking for some ways to define output routing everywhere, but no luck .. what am I doing wrong? :-(
Many thanks in advance!
Marek

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Maybe a silly question but have you got both in and out fibres connected to each of the interfaces?

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Try matrix mode in TMfx. A simple way of routing to correct output. Goto left upper corner, the file curtain and selct new totalmix window. Or just type x in TMfx. Type m to go back.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

mkok wrote:

Maybe a silly question but have you got both in and out fibres connected to each of the interfaces?

Not silly - happened to me also .. but this time yes I do ...

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Happy_amateur wrote:

Try matrix mode in TMfx. A simple way of routing to correct output. Goto left upper corner, the file curtain and selct new totalmix window. Or just type x in TMfx. Type m to go back.

Well I am not sure how to do the routing - let me review my hardware setup:

ADA8200(A)  is connected to ADAT1 mapped channels as ADAT1-8
ADA8200(B)  is connected to ADAT2 mapped channels as ADAT9-16
ADA8200(C)  is connected to ADAT3 mapped channels as ADAT17-24
UR824 is connected to ADAT4 mapped channels as ADAT25-32

I have studio monitors connected to output channels 1 and 2 of the UR824 (mapped to ADAT outs 25 and 26).

When playing my hardware synths connected to either ADA8200 (A), (B), (C) or UR824 I see LED activity on correct respective ADAT input channels in TotalMix. But no matter what I do I see no activity on any of the output channels in TotalMix (I work in DAW mode so I only see hardware outs) and of course I hear nothing from the monitors. Please, help!  :,(

6 (edited by waedi 2021-12-13 22:22:33)

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Why do you want to use DAW mode before familiarized with normal mode ?
I would change that to full-mode (normal-mode)
Then click on the output channel Adat 25/26 the channel becomes highlighted.
Then look in the top row channels called hardware input channels, see the signal of your synth and raise that fader, the signal is routed now to the output channel you have highlighted before.
Same for the middle row channels, the software playback channels, for listening sound from a DAW or player raise the fader to send that sound to a preselected output.
Without routing signals to outputs nothing comes out.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

mminarik wrote:

But no matter what I do I see no activity on any of the output channels in TotalMix (I work in DAW mode so I only see hardware outs) and of course I hear nothing from the monitors. Please, help!  :,(

If you see no metering then no audio gets passed to the driver. Please double check the audio setup in the software you are using.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

In TMfx matrix view, top vertical row is hardware inputs. Below is software playback. The bottom horizontal row is hardware outputs.

At the intersect off selected input and selected output on the grid in TMfx matrix view, doubleclick. You will see they higlight in green and shows 0.0. Doubleclick on selected output at horizontal row. It highlits in green showing 0.0. Voila, a route is established.

Go into driver page of Digiface USB. Check that output format is set to ADAT. Options--> output: Totalmix. Input status should all be showing: Sync(steady, not altering between sync/lock).

You have to dive in to the manual of ADA8200 to set up the clock correctly.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

In TMFX mixer view goto control room section(lower right) choose assign. There you can set which input is phones out on your digiface.

Read the manual of Digiface USB. Begin with driverpage settings p.12

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Guys, it's not a TotalMix problem, you are confusing the issue. The DAW does not send any audio to the RME driver. DAW mode is super simple, there is nothing to "go wrong" here. The error must be in the audio application settings.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

11 (edited by waedi 2021-12-13 23:48:01)

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Jeff, I think there is no DAW involved.
He plays a hardwaresynth via adat converter into the Digiface, he sees the signal (!) in the Totalmix input channel but no output. Simple output routing...?
@mminarik please provide a screenshot of your Totalmix.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

12 (edited by ramses 2021-12-14 11:38:47)

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Jeff wrote:

Guys, it's not a TotalMix problem, you are confusing the issue. The DAW does not send any audio to the RME driver. DAW mode is super simple, there is nothing to "go wrong" here. The error must be in the audio application settings.

Sorry gents, I deleted my posting. Some comments in this thread led me already into the wrong direction to treat this as TM FX routing problem.

In DAW mode you have no TM FX routing as you write with the application directly to HW outputs.
If this doesn't happen then something is wrong on application or between application and hw.

Two observations I regard as important:

1. The installed driver on the computer has at least found the recording interface otherwise TM FX would not start up.

2. At least input from synths show up in TM FX, but also in the application/daw ????

Has the proper ASIO driver been selected in the DAW???

Have all I/O channels from ASIO driver been selected so that they are accessible in this DAW project??? Especially in DAW mode it's important to have access to all channels as you do not perform routing in TM fx from one sw playback channel to outputs as needed.

Remember that DAWs like Cubase have a channel selection / mapping to internal DAW busses "per project".
In Reaper you have to configure a range from/to Channel if I remember correctly.

A screenshot from those ASIO settings might be helpful!!!

Also useful might be a validation whether clock synchronisation is properly setup.
Assumed is the RME device to act as clock master. So in the RME driver settings: clock source = "internal". Then a TOSLINK cable is also needed from RME device to each of the connected four devices to send the clock signal to each device. Each of the connected devices need to be configured as clock slave to read clock from optical (ADAT).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

waedi wrote:

Jeff, I think there is no DAW involved.
He plays a hardwaresynth via adat converter into the Digiface, he sees the signal (!) in the Totalmix input channel but no output. Simple output routing...?
@mminarik please provide a screenshot of your Totalmix.

Thank you, here is the screen of what is happening when I play on the N5 keyboard (activity on input only):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n6lS7k … sp=sharing

thanks again!

14 (edited by mminarik 2021-12-20 21:14:12)

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Ramses wrote:

Guys, it's not a TotalMix problem, you are confusing the issue. The DAW does not send any audio to the RME driver. DAW mode is super simple, there is nothing to "go wrong" here. The error must be in the audio application settings.

Sorry gents, I deleted my posting. Some comments in this thread led me already into the wrong direction to treat this as TM FX routing problem.

In DAW mode you have no TM FX routing as you write with the application directly to HW outputs.
If this doesn't happen then something is wrong on application or between application and hw.

Two observations I regard as important:

1. The installed driver on the computer has at least found the recording interface otherwise TM FX would not start up.

Yes correct.

Ramses wrote:

2. At least input from synths show up in TM FX, but also in the application/daw ????

Yes, I use Cubase 7.5 and I see also activity on the inputs (again no output there ...)

Ramses wrote:

Has the proper ASIO driver been selected in the DAW???

Yes, but I dont need to run Cubase to have the audio working in TM Fx, right?

Ramses wrote:

Have all I/O channels from ASIO driver been selected so that they are accessible in this DAW project??? Especially in DAW mode it's important to have access to all channels as you do not perform routing in TM fx from one sw playback channel to outputs as needed.

Well that I am not sure. Where should I do that?

Ramses wrote:

Remember that DAWs like Cubase have a channel selection / mapping to internal DAW busses "per project".
In Reaper you have to configure a range from/to Channel if I remember correctly.

A screenshot from those ASIO settings might be helpful!!!

Do you mean this MADIface Series Setting?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q_QwFu … sp=sharing


Ramses wrote:

Also useful might be a validation whether clock synchronisation is properly setup.
Assumed is the RME device to act as clock master. So in the RME driver settings: clock source = "internal". Then a TOSLINK cable is also needed from RME device to each of the connected four devices to send the clock signal to each device. Each of the connected devices need to be configured as clock slave to read clock from optical (ADAT).

Ok, would an incorrect clock cause no output at all?

Also about the clock connection - do I really need a separate toslink cable or do I just select "Internal" on Digiface and "ADAT.." on the interfaces?

Thanks again!!

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Guys, could you please, look at my "Outputs" tab in the "Channel layout" window?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NYV0aH … sp=sharing


What are the "x"s in the "In Use" column? In the "Inputs" tab I have "-" under the In Use" column. Could it be that my output channels are somehow taken and in use by some other app (even if nothing else is running here ...)?

Thank you!

16 (edited by ramses 2021-12-20 22:10:29)

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

> Yes, but I dont need to run Cubase to have the audio working in TM Fx, right?

You need to configure a WDM device for Windows OS and non-ASIO aware applications and make this to your default sound device in windows sound settings.

Maybe these step by step setup instructions from my blog help you: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

17 (edited by waedi 2021-12-20 22:09:47)

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Photo in post 13 shows a Totalmix in useless situation, without faders in the input channels !
Is this the so-called DAW-mode ?
Switch that back into normal mode and you will be able to route any input signal to any output without Cubase and probably without any further WDM.
you have it all there the input signal is nicely visible and obvious nothing can be heard as long nothing is routed to the output.
As you mentioned in the titel of the thread.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

18 (edited by ramses 2021-12-20 22:17:36)

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Why useless .. you see an input signal.
As you have no TM FX routing, you simply write to the outputs.
But Windows (which does the routing now) needs a default sound device.
And I think he forgot to create the WDM device for the output, where his monitors are connected to.
And this has to be the Windows default sound device and needs to be configured in the Windows sound settings.

Anyway I agree, that normal mode is much more flexible and you can mimicri DAW mode by using the TM FX reset mixer option "straight playback" and then refine the routing as needed.

DAW mode has maybe its advantages if you work with a PC exclusively with a DAW and if you really want to route in a DAW (which is not so flexible).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

19

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

DAW mode is useless here because the user explicitely wanted to monitor input signals without DAW...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

waedi wrote:

Photo in post 13 shows a Totalmix in useless situation, without faders in the input channels !
Is this the so-called DAW-mode ?
Switch that back into normal mode and you will be able to route any input signal to any output without Cubase and probably without any further WDM.
you have it all there the input signal is nicely visible and obvious nothing can be heard as long nothing is routed to the output.
As you mentioned in the titel of the thread.

Ok, here is what it looks like in Normal mode ...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10h3F_g … sp=sharing

thank you!

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

MC wrote:

DAW mode is useless here because the user explicitely wanted to monitor input signals without DAW...

Thanks I tried it out and noticed that its not the way I thought it "might be".
I thought / hoped that Windows Mixer would jump in here and send audio signals from inputs to the Windows Default Sound device. But this doesn't work.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

ramses wrote:

Why useless .. you see an input signal.
As you have no TM FX routing, you simply write to the outputs.
But Windows (which does the routing now) needs a default sound device.
And I think he forgot to create the WDM device for the output, where his monitors are connected to.
And this has to be the Windows default sound device and needs to be configured in the Windows sound settings.

Anyway I agree, that normal mode is much more flexible and you can mimicri DAW mode by using the TM FX reset mixer option "straight playback" and then refine the routing as needed.

DAW mode has maybe its advantages if you work with a PC exclusively with a DAW and if you really want to route in a DAW (which is not so flexible).

Ok, I have changed the "Default playback device" in Windows setting from Phones to ADAT25+26 (that are the main outs  from Steinberg UR824, that is connected to DigiFace by ADAT).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ju0PwX … sp=sharing

Nothing changed - still no audio activity on outs :,-(

23 (edited by ramses 2021-12-21 10:13:35)

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Now you need to learn about submix mode.

There are several possibilities for that

1-Read the manual of your recording interface.

2-Check RME tutorial videos
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … al-Videos/

3-Check my step by step guide for a good 1st time setup:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/

In short, in TM FX
- ensure that submix mode is enabled, right side in the blue field
- click assign button and assign the HW output to Main Out, where your monitors are connected to
   this brings this ADAT output into the TM FX Control room, so that you can use control room features like DIM, etc ...
- click to the HW output "Main Out" in the TM FX control room in bottom row to select this submix
   you see on the base of all faders of top row the name of this output

And now you dial in the submix for this particular HW output by really "simply"
moving the faders of HW inputs (top row) and SW playbacks (middle row) as you need for this submix.

note: HW inputs is whats connected to your recording interface, this you can route in near-realtime to the outputs of your recording interface. SW Playbacks is audio from your PC that comes from applications/DAW/Windows but which needs to go through USB, there you have the typical round trip latency (RTL) through USB that is under 10ms if the ASIO buffersize is below 256 @44.1/48 kHz,

This is the only thing to do, selecting a HW output in bottom row and to move faders to create the mix as you like.
For every output, as every output is a submix of its own ...

For Windows Sound you need to do an additional task: create a WDM device for Windows in the RME driver settings for the HW output where your active monitor is connected to .. ADAT channel xx OUT. Set this to be a speaker there in the next tab in the RME driver settings. As soon as you do that you see in Windows own Sound Settings a Speaker symbol for that. Set this as default sound device to be able to listen to youtube audio and alike, which has no ASIO support.

You can use certain presets in the Reset Mixer Section to get some quick defaults

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Happy_amateur wrote:

In TMfx matrix view, top vertical row is hardware inputs. Below is software playback. The bottom horizontal row is hardware outputs.

At the intersect off selected input and selected output on the grid in TMfx matrix view, doubleclick. You will see they higlight in green and shows 0.0. Doubleclick on selected output at horizontal row. It highlits in green showing 0.0. Voila, a route is established.

Ok, here is what my Mixer view looked like:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cMMMkX … sp=sharing

and after I did the routing as you suggested (hopefully):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LmCNeF … sp=sharing

But nothing changed ... :-(


Happy_amateur wrote:

Go into driver page of Digiface USB. Check that output format is set to ADAT. Options--> output: Totalmix. Input status should all be showing: Sync(steady, not altering between sync/lock).

I hope this is what you mean by "driver page of DigiFace USB" and it looks like this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/145ZHbk … sp=sharing


Happy_amateur wrote:

You have to dive in to the manual of ADA8200 to set up the clock correctly.

Actually ADA8200 is really "idiotenfest", so there is a switch on the back for "Internal/ADAT1 or 2" clock setting. Hopefully I did not mess-up anything here at least ...

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Now guys please dont think I am a lunatic. After I changed to "SUBMIX" while being in the Normal mode (as per Ramses suggestion) all of the sudden everything started to work - I immediately saw signal activity on Main outs and I could hear all my synths in Phones connected to the UR824 !!! So happy !!! smile

BUT!!

Then I tried to go back to see where the problem was so I switched back to DAW mode and everything was back to bad - no output activity. Alright, but after I switched back to Normal mode and SUBMIX again ... the stuff stays broken sad

It has got to be some crazy conflict between my Windows setting and the DigiFace setting. Now the strangest thing is that even now when I am switching between DAW and Normal operating modes, I can clearly hear the whistling windows notification sound that comes with the "Do you really want to switch mode?" window in my phones and also I clearly see the whistle generating activity on Main outs indicators.

Ok, I guess now it is just a matter of playing with Windows restarts or  ... just throwing my beloved Windows 7 PC out a finally getting some contemporary machine. Nothing else could now be done when everything is set exactly as if it was working for a moment.

But at least I know how to set everything up. Thank you all for very useful comments - I really appreciate it !

26 (edited by ramses 2021-12-21 12:05:14)

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

MC told clearly in post #19 that DAW mode won't work for that and it failed for me as well, when I tried (tbh never used the limited DAW mode). You would always need a DAW project open and route sound always in the DAW/app with loaded ASIO driver). So please forget about. As you can see normal mode works nicely and routing in TM FX is not rocket science you only need to know once how to do it, thats all.

The instructions for routing in Submix Mode I gave you already and it worked, well done, congrats !

I performed a drawing to make your setup more clear, as it appeared to me that you have maybe understanding problems in terms of clock setup etc ...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4beyqifztq41fz/Digiface%20USB%20%2B%20ADA8200%20%2B%20US824.jpg?dl=1


Tip: If the image is too tiny, then right click to it and open it in a new browser tab ..

My final advice again, see post #23 above: read my blog article how to get a good 1st time setup and then to watch RME TM FX tutorial videos. If you have that as a basement then maybe reading the very good manual is easier to you.

If you want a DAW mode alike routing in TM FX normal mode as a 1st start, then you only need to use one of the reset mix options: TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Straight playback. And then refine routing.
Then all SW playbacks (from PC) would be routed to their corresponding HW output, e.g.
SW Playback ADAT 1/2 to HW Output ADAT 1/2
SW Playback ADAT 3/4 to HW Output ADAT 3/4
and so on.

BUT .. I think easier for your setup/use would be
TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Straight playback with all to Main out-
Then all SW playbacks would be routed to your ADAT 25/26 OUT.
Take care ... before that use ASSIGN button to assign ADAT 25/26OUT to "Main Out", which also brings this channel in the TM FX control room, so that you can use control room features.

Don't forget to save your routing in one of the snapshots 1..8.
Also nice to save your workspace to a 1 of 30 workspace quick select slot, then you recall your setup to the last saved one by pressing ALT-1 (in case you experimented and want to come back quick. You can recall 9 workspaces with ALT-1 .. ALT-9.
Finally save your setup to a file on PC where it is part of your normal system backup.
TM FX -> File -> Save Workspace As...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

Well I figured it all finally. When switching between DAW and Normal modes all routing is reset.

After saving a snapshot with the proper routing in Submix mode, and re-loading it wfter mode is switched, everything works!!!

Thank you all guys, especially thanks to ramses for a few more useful tips in post #26

I really appreciate your help everybody, have a Happy new year!!

Re: Newbie: Digiface USB problem with output routing

You're welcome, merry X and happy new year to you too :-)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14