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RME User Forum → HDSP(e) series → HDSPe AES Running with UFX+
Hi guys,
I need some help.
My main recording interface is the UFX+ with Madi connections to M32Pro and ADAT connections to the 802. Beside that I need 2 more AES channel than I have with the UFX+ and so I am think of buying the AES
Question: can I access the AES in& outs of the PCIcard via TotalMix like I can do with the MADI & ADAT Signals that I route to/ from the M32Pro & 802 for example?
(Windows 10 btw.)
Thank you
Best,
Lutz
This could be done with an ADI6432, but not with the HDSPe AES.
Every interface has its own Totalmix, it does not cross connect different interfaces unless you connect them with cables.
This could be done with an ADI6432, but not with the HDSPe AES.
Every interface has its own Totalmix, it does not cross connect different interfaces unless you connect them with cables.
Hi there,
thank you, ok, but only with cable connection right? I guess there´s no way without it...
Is there any way to add one or two AES signal-paths to my existing system? of course I have no free jacks
Hi Lutz,
get an Octamic XTC, connect it via MADI and use the Auxdevice feature to remote control the preamps.
This device gives you additionally 4x AES I/O in and out and can be used as format converter between MADI, ADAT, AES.
On the XTC you only need to configure the routing for the 4 AES I/O's.
This is the best solution and most important, your UFX+ stays the main interface and you only have to deal with one TM FX instance.
Hi Lutz,
get an Octamic XTC, connect it via MADI and use the Auxdevice feature to remote control the preamps.
This device gives you additionally 4x AES I/O in and out and can be used as format converter between MADI, ADAT, AES.
On the XTC you only need to configure the routing for the 4 AES I/O's.This is the best solution and most important, your UFX+ stays the main interface and you only have to deal with one TM FX instance.
Thank you, sounds good so far, but the MADI ports are occupied by the M32 Pro´s...Anyway, auxdevice feature sounds interesting never used it. Maybe I´ll get a little bit deeper into that.
The Madi port can connect more than one Madi device.
You can open the Madi cable plug and bild a daisy chain.
The Octamic XTC would be a great choice if you can find one.
It seems to be out of production, no longer available.
The 12mic is the unit actually to look for.
It seems to be out of production, no longer available.
https://www.rme-shop.com/cgi-bin/sh0018 … tml#SID=94
The 12mic is the unit actually to look for.
Remember, the key reason was to get AES ports. So the 12Mic doesn't help.
Next best solution is this: https://www.rme-shop.com/cgi-bin/sh0018 … ml#SID=107
The Madi port can connect more than one Madi device.
You can open the Madi cable plug and bild a daisy chain.The Octamic XTC would be a great choice if you can find one.
It seems to be out of production, no longer available.
The 12mic is the unit actually to look for.
Hi there,
Thank you. And if I insert a new device such as a Octamic xtc via madi, are the madi signals from my m32s also routed through that device? Do I have to connect/ route every existing madi channel through the octamic xtc manually to keep up the audio?
ramses wrote:Hi Lutz,
get an Octamic XTC, connect it via MADI and use the Auxdevice feature to remote control the preamps.
This device gives you additionally 4x AES I/O in and out and can be used as format converter between MADI, ADAT, AES.
On the XTC you only need to configure the routing for the 4 AES I/O's.This is the best solution and most important, your UFX+ stays the main interface and you only have to deal with one TM FX instance.
Thank you, sounds good so far, but the MADI ports are occupied by the M32 Pro´s...Anyway, auxdevice feature sounds interesting never used it. Maybe I´ll get a little bit deeper into that.
MADI has 64 channels at single speed, 32 channels at double speed, 16 channels at quad speed.
You didn't tell with which sample rate you work and whether you have M32 Pro AD or DA or both.
Assumed you use M32 Pro AD/DA at single speed then the channel assignment on the MADI bus allows for this setup
1 10 20 30 40 50 60 64
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234
IN |------------------ M-32 Pro AD--------------| |ADI-642|
OUT |------------------ M-32 Pro DA--------------| |ADI-642|
Even if you would use double speed you simply do not use the last 8 I/O channels of M32 Pro AD and DA
and use those to get ports for the ADI-642.
1 10 20 32
12345678901234567890123456789012
IN |------------------ M-32 Pro AD--||ADI-642|
OUT |------------------ M-32 Pro DA--||ADI-642|
The MADI bus of your UFX+ supports 8 or even more devices and the distance between each of these devices may be up to 2km (!) when using OM3/OM4 multimode cable. On special order you can even get single mode devices which boosts this distance up to 10km between each of the devices in a MADI bus/ring structure.
From cabling perspective it would look like this using OM3 multimode fiber cable:
UFX+----OM3----->M32ProAD----OM3----->M32ProDA----OM3------>ADI-642-----+
| |
+-------------------<----OM3----------------------------------------------------------------+
In single speed you could even connect M32 AD/DA and four XTC:
1 10 20 30 40 50 60 64
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234
IN |------------------ M-32 Pro AD--------------||---XTC1--||---XTC2-| |--XTC3--| |---XTC4-|
OUT |------------------ M-32 Pro DA--------------||---XTC1--||---XTC2-| |--XTC3--| |---XTC4-|
Because of this great flexibility of MADI I recommend everybody to get smth like an UFX+ to be able to scale up later for only a few bucks more and with the UFX+ you have USB3 and Thunderbolt (and USB2 without MADI) as options to connect to PC !
waedi wrote:The Madi port can connect more than one Madi device.
You can open the Madi cable plug and bild a daisy chain.The Octamic XTC would be a great choice if you can find one.
It seems to be out of production, no longer available.
The 12mic is the unit actually to look for.Hi there,
Thank you. And if I insert a new device such as a Octamic xtc via madi, are the madi signals from my m32s also routed through that device? Do I have to connect/ route every existing madi channel through the octamic xtc manually to keep up the audio?
Every MADI device has its own routing from/to MADI, which of the up to 64 channels it will use.
lutz.herman1 wrote:waedi wrote:The Madi port can connect more than one Madi device.
You can open the Madi cable plug and bild a daisy chain.The Octamic XTC would be a great choice if you can find one.
It seems to be out of production, no longer available.
The 12mic is the unit actually to look for.Hi there,
Thank you. And if I insert a new device such as a Octamic xtc via madi, are the madi signals from my m32s also routed through that device? Do I have to connect/ route every existing madi channel through the octamic xtc manually to keep up the audio?
Every MADI device has its own routing from/to MADI, which of the up to 64 channels it will use.
Hi ramses, thank you for your detailed posts, that helps a lot!!
You're welcome Lutz :-)
Hey ramses,
Just want to catch up your “MADI 64” channel post, not wanting to start a new one. I think it fits in here;)
I am running 48khz in my system, hooked up the UFX+ and M32pro D/A and A/D for outboard gear.
I would like to expand the system with 2 more M32pro (one D/A and one A/D). I think I am only using the first 32 channel of the 64 channel MADI stream and could use the channel 33-64 channel to route them to the 2nd M32pro devices for my understanding. Is that right? I know the signal is serial flow and has to pass through the first m32 units to reach the 2nd.
On The newer version of the m32 pro you have to choose the optical madi expansion card, I think this is the single speed version, right? Do you think this will work as I would like to use it?
Thank you and to any other involved in advance ✌️
Hi Lutz,
welcome back, how are you?
No problem, chain the three devices one after the other:
From cabling perspective (MM = OM3 or OM4 multimode fiber cable):
+---UFX+----MM--->M32AD#1----MM--->M32AD#2----MM--->M32DA#3----MM--->M32DA#4---+
^ |
| |
+--------------------------------------MM----------------------------<-----------------------------------------+
I would connect / group the devices so that AD and DA converters are close to each other, thus having about the same latency. As it takes 3 samples for forwarding packets to the next MADI device in the serial chain of devices.
As you only record in single speed, you have 64 channels available.
This is suitable for one more M-32 AD and DA converter.
Channel mapping on MADI bus for the two M-32 AD and two M-32 DA converters at single speed offering 64 input and output channels:
Device: |------------#1--------------||-----------#2-------------|
Ch AD: 1..............16...............32...............48...............64
Ch DA: 1..............16...............32...............48...............64
|------------#3--------------||-----------#4-------------|
Hi ramses,
I’m fine thank you, hope you as well?!:)
Thank you for replying so fast and detailed. It is pretty much what I thought. I didn’t know that forwarding would take 3 samples, that is good to know. Just reading the manual again, it says 4 samples for MADI I/O. Do you mean that or something else with “forwarding”? I think with big or even bigger chains of devices it’s getting more and more important to know all the exact latencies, because all my DAW is compensating for is the UFX+ but nothing after that. I think that may lead into timing/ phase issues if you don’t take care of.
So I guess, choosing the M32pro II would be necessary with single the speed optical MADI expansion?
Thanks and have great holidays!
In the Octamic XTC manual, it is explained more in detail. 3 or 4 samples is not that much.
Converter latencies of today's devices are also becoming lower.
Yes, I would choose the new M32 Pro II and would use MADI optical.
You could also think about getting the HDSPe MADI FX with three MADI buses.
Then you could connect a pair of AD and DA converters to one bus.
This would even allow recording in double speed (where you only have 32channels per MADI bus).
MADI Bus #1: ------>------ M32 Pro AD ------>----- M32 Pro DA+
+---------------------------------<---------------------------------------+
MADI Bus #2: ------>------ M32 Pro AD ------>----- M32 Pro DA+
+---------------------------------<---------------------------------------+
MADI Bus #3: ------>------ 12Mic------+
+---------------------------------<---------+
or
MADI Bus #3: ------>------ UFX+------+ For e.g. DURec Purposes as recording backup
+---------------------------------<---------+
AES:-----------ADI-2 Pro FS R BE or ADI-2/4 Pro SE--------------------Monitors/Phones
HDSPe MADI FX MADI BUS #3 is coaxial, but you can buy an optional optical card to be connected by ribbon band.
HDSPe has AES I/O, so you can connect easily ADI-2 Pro * for monitoring.
Special with this card is the optimized driver which only allocates computer resources in the driver for groups of 8 ports, if at least one port of the 8 is in use, otherwise not.
Just a few ideas.
Hi ramses,
thank you for your thoughts on this. Really helpful! The option with the HDSP Card sounds promising, never thought of that. As I read it’s with total mix and therefore it should come up integrated in totalmix with my UFX+, so that I can route the devices just like daisy-chained right?
So thank you again, really helpful.
I made a review some time ago:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … Pro-FS-BE/
Full review, please see there the PDF v1.1: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … l-v1-1-pdf
Regarding integration of ADI-2 Pro through AES port:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/
ADI-2 models (except ADI-2/4 Pro SE) and additional infos here:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/
Hi Ramses,
thank you for the link and info. Really great content, I read a lot. RTL and setup examples are really helpful, thanks for putting so much work in that and make it accessible to RME (and other) fellows.
One question remains, if I would choose the HDSP card for the Madi devices, is it necessary to make it the DAW Audio Interface or can I keep using the UFX+ as main interface and then route to/from the m32pros via Totalmix as additional devices?
Maybe you know that, I can’t find any proper answer to that.
Anyway, thanx again and take care;)
The two interfaces have different drivers, and you can only use one in an application.
Either the one or the other.
But you can install the two ASIO drivers so that you do not need to run the UFX+ in stand-alone mode, keeping it operational in a 2nd TM FX instance.
You could connect the UFX+ to MADI bus #3 for different purposes, be it DURec of up to 64 channels or to use it's analog I/O.
Don't forget to order the optional MADI module for the HDSPe MADI FX, so that the 3rd MADI bus is also optical.
Or sell the UFX+. Instead of DURec you can also use DIGIcheck Global Record to make a backup recording.
If HDSPe MADI FX I would think of getting
- ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (to be connected through AES) or alternatively ADI-2/4 Pro SE
- 12Mic if you also need Mic inputs
- M-32 Pro as stated above..
- the optional MADI optical Module for the HDSPe MADI FX
- ARC USB
UFX+ could be used to cross finance this or that or you use it for kind of mobile recording.
Hi Ramses,
thank you for your thoughts on this, really appreciate it!
RME User Forum → HDSP(e) series → HDSPe AES Running with UFX+
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