• Registered: 2021-12-16
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Topic: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

I wasn't sure if I should post this to Total Mix or here.
I've been using old Babyface for about 8 years but didn't really look deep into Total mix so far. My monitor controller stopped working and was searching if there was a way to connect 2 sets of monitors directly to Babyface.
I saw a few postings saying that I can set Speaker B to phone3/4 output so that I can have control over the secondary speakers as well. When I do that, would I not be able to use headphones?
I'm sorry for the newbie question, but it seems that I can't assign any more output to my actual headphones.\
I would appreciate your help!

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-12-16 10:30:44)

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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

BBF Pro has two phones outputs with different output levels. With this you might get it to work to plug phones and monitors unbalanced by using an y-cable, but in this case you could not set the volume separately for phones/monitors.
It would be more useful to connect a da converter to adat to get more balanced analog outputs. Or a monitor controller.
Cheapest maybe to connect an ada8200 which gives you a little of everything (preamp, line ins and outs) for under €200.
You didn't say about your budget.
Ideal solution to enhance your monitoring would be the purchase of ADI-2 DAC/Pro with very nice enhanced features.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-12-16
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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

ramses wrote:

BBF Pro has two phones outputs with different output levels. With this you might get it to work to plug phones and monitors unbalanced by using an y-cable, but in this case you could not set the volume separately for phones/monitors.
It would be more useful to connect a da converter to adat to get more balanced analog outputs. Or a monitor controller.
Cheapest maybe to connect an ada8200 which gives you a little of everything.


Thank you so much! I was watching reviews of ada8200, and I think that's the best option for me. Thanks!

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-12-16 10:37:27)

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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

Edited my posting at the end about ADI-2 DAC/Pro, which is a phantastic product. If u r interested see these two blog articles that I wrote to give an overview about the two available products and how to integrate into your environment, in your case through ADAT/SPDIF.

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … ses-EN-DE/

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … our-Setup/

An additional device like eg the ADI-2 Pro can serve you well with a lot of useful features which are unique to this device:
- excellent ad da conversion
- support of four reference levels and a feature called auto reflevel that automatically chooses the optimum reference level so that SNR and dynamic is optimum over a much wider volume range (honours also B/T, PEQ and dynamic loudness settings in the calculation to select optimum reflevel)
- ear protection by slow ramp-up of volume when plugging phones or switching between monitors and phones
- bittest to be able to perform an end to end test whether audio from a PC player was received lossless to ensure/check highest quality playback
- 5 band PEQ to compensate deficits of phones or hearing weakness, even  possible per channel
- B/T controls to compensate bass and treble for bigger differences in music material/masters
- dynamic loudness so that music keeps it's body if you turn down the volume
- support for DAD in case you want/need it
- different levels of crossfeed
- extreme power headphones outputs driving even phones that need a lot of power
- balanced mode for phones in case you want it
- useful status screens with the possibility to troubleshoot digital connections better
- SRC (sample rate converter) to connect devices with fix clock like DAT recorder
- two dac chips to connect and compare phones at the same type of da converter
- can act as a monitor controller for your monitoring section finalising the end volume  so that a 0dB fader setting in TM FX can not harm your ears and/or equipment just in case you performed no proper level matching eg using attenuators if needed.
- possibility to choose between different DA filter of your DAC for eg either most linear frequency courve or to use have an emphasis on other things of a little bit higher separation of certain percussive music instruments. These are only nuances and might depend on your room, equipment, etc (see one of KaiS's postings).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-12-16
  • Posts: 7

Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

ramses wrote:

Edited my posting at the end about ADI-2 DAC/Pro, which is a phantastic product. If u r interested see these two blog articles that I wrote to give an overview about the two available products and how to integrate into your environment, in your case through ADAT/SPDIF.

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … ses-EN-DE/

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … our-Setup/

An additional device like eg the ADI-2 Pro can serve you well with a lot of useful features which are unique to this device:
- excellent ad da conversion
- support of four reference levels and a feature called auto reflevel that automatically chooses the optimum reference level so that SNR and dynamic is optimum over a much wider volume range (honours also B/T, PEQ and dynamic loudness settings in the calculation to select optimum reflevel)
- ear protection by slow ramp-up of volume when plugging phones or switching between monitors and phones
- bittest to be able to perform an end to end test whether audio from a PC player was received lossless to ensure/check highest quality playback
- 5 band PEQ to compensate deficits of phones or hearing weakness, even  possible per channel
- B/T controls to compensate bass and treble for bigger differences in music material/masters
- dynamic loudness so that music keeps it's body if you turn down the volume
- support for DAD in case you want/need it
- different levels of crossfeed
- extreme power headphones outputs driving even phones that need a lot of power
- balanced mode for phones in case you want it
- useful status screens with the possibility to troubleshoot digital connections better
- SRC (sample rate converter) to connect devices with fix clock like DAT recorder
- two dac chips to connect and compare phones at the same type of da converter
- can act as a monitor controller for your monitoring section finalising the end volume  so that a 0dB fader setting in TM FX can not harm your ears and/or equipment just in case you performed no proper level matching eg using attenuators if needed.
- possibility to choose between different DA filter of your DAC for eg either most linear frequency courve or to use have an emphasis on other things of a little bit higher separation of certain percussive music instruments. These are only nuances and might depend on your room, equipment, etc (see one of KaiS's postings).

Thank you very much for taking the time to help. I will take a look at the postings. Thank you!

6 Reply by flumee (edited by flumee 2021-12-19 10:49:31)

  • Registered: 2021-12-16
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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

I came up with cheaper ways to set two sets of monitors with my Babyface mk1. I also looked at a lot of reviews of ADI-2 Pro out of curiosity after reading your postings. I'm now thinking to upgrade to ADI-2 Pro actually.

Thanks for your advice, and I'm sorry that I have some more questions. Probably beginner questions.

I was looking at UCX II as well, but I don't think I will need all the functions and inputs on it. I don't record much, just occasional guitar recordings with D.I. The most important thing when I upgrade is the sound quality of the converter. (In this case, yes I am upgrading for more analog outputs as well)
- I'm wondering if ADI-2 has better AD/DA sound quality than UCX II. If not, I think I should get UCX II.
- Would I be able to use ADI-2 Pro as the main interface and still connect Babyface for a secondary set of monitors?

Thanks again for the advice!

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-12-19 12:15:43)

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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

It's the other way around, you keep the Babyface as main recording interface and have by this the very nice routing and other capabilities of TM FX.

You add the ADI-2 Pro to the setup by connecting it via ADAT to enhance your monitoring via monitors and headphones.

In TotalMix FX you
- assign Main Out to ADAT OUT / Optical. This brings the ADAT output into the Control Room of TM FX
- routing you get quickly done by using the predefined routings, e.g. TM->Options->Reset Mix-> Straigt playback with all to Main Out .. by this all audio from PC (sw playbacks) are being routed to the ADAT output where your ADI-2 Pro is connected to.

Most advantages you get from the ADI-2 Pro which I posted in the last weeks and months in numerous postings.
But you should combine it with a recording interface to get also TotalMix FX.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-12-16
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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

I am sorry that I forgot the very detailed information about the setup in your other posting.

Thank you again!!

9 Reply by Topanga_Dreams (edited by Topanga_Dreams 2021-12-21 15:09:12)

  • Registered: 2021-12-21
  • Posts: 33

Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

Thanks @ramses & @flumee for the insights.
I have a similar challenge that also concerns the buying decision between the Babyface Pro FS & the Fireface UCX II. The later also comes with an additional ARC and some third party  plugins right now.

With the Babyface I would be able to use headphone outs and the main outs to get two pairs connected. Together with Total Mix it will be possible to set it up that way, it seems.

With the Fireface II I would be able to set a 2nd pair of monitors to the analog outs and route everything with TotalMix. Can I switch between monitors with the ARC USB?

In both ways the D/A conversion will be done in both interfaces. The same applies when I connect a monitor controller like the Audient Nero.

One step up would be to connect a device like the Dangerous Source (including D/A conversion). And the crown jewel is the ADI 2 PRO. But both are out of reach (money wise), as it seems.

But what about connecting two speakers to the ADI? Then I probably would need a device like the Coleman (switch for three monitors) or a rack mount switch, which would ad additional costs.

The main questions for me are (starting with the interface decision):
Are the qualities of converters, preamps in both (Babyface and Fireface UCX II) the same? I am dreaming to get some outboard gear somewhere in the future, that would speak for the later.

And what advantage would an additional monitor controller without conversion like the Nero bring vs doing everything inside the RME devices?

By the way, I am glad I found this great and alive forum, it seems as a Windows user I will be in good hands with RME (also regarding updates of firmware etc.). :-)

I am doing music as a hobby, but want get a good setup that will last a few years, without having trouble with support and updates :-). Mainly, I do acoustic guitar, voice and vst instruments.

All the best & thanks in advance,

Thorsten

Mac Mini M2 Pro 16GB RAM - RME FIREFACE 802 - LOGIC PRO

10 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-12-21 18:44:43)

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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

> The later also comes with an additional ARC
You can use the ARC with all recording interfaces that support TotalMix FX, so to say more or less all since ~2001,
so even for those recording interfaces that were initially designed without remote control.
The special USB port on UCX II, UFX II/+ make it possible to use the remote control even in stand-alone mode when not being connected to the computer.

> Can I switch between monitors with the ARC USB
TotalMix FX always supports "Main Out" and "Main Out B" and on the picture of it you see a button "Speaker B".

Ideal combination for you UCX II with ARC USB and then at any time later (if you have again some money to spend) an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE additionally, see how to integrate it into your setup here: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-12-21
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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

ramses wrote:

> The later also comes with an additional ARC
You can use the ARC with all recording interfaces that support TotalMix FX, so to say more or less all since ~2001,
so even for those recording interfaces that were initially designed without remote control.
The special USB port on UCX II, UFX II/+ make it possible to use the remote control even in stand-alone mode when not being connected to the computer.

> Can I switch between monitors with the ARC USB
TotalMix FX always supports "Main Out" and "Main Out B" and on the picture of it you see a button "Speaker B".

Ideal combination for you UCX II with ARC USB and then at any time later (if you have again some money to spend) an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE additionally, see how to integrate it into your setup here: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

Great! Thanks for your support!
I will pull the trigger for the Fireface UCX II as it also comes with the promo of the ARC USB.
I really love the idea to use it standalone for recording and to use the remote, there are so many great features involved in this unit.

One remaining question regarding the ADI 2 Pro FS R BE: How can I hook up two pairs of monitors with the device? Do I need a Speaker Switcher, like the Coleman SPK5+1, to integrate after the ADI 2?

Mac Mini M2 Pro 16GB RAM - RME FIREFACE 802 - LOGIC PRO

12 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-12-21 20:31:41)

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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

Simply connect the second pair of speakers ("Monitor B") to the analog outputs of UCX II this is well enough.
Then use the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE for your primary monitor and headphones.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

13 Reply by Topanga_Dreams (edited by Topanga_Dreams 2021-12-21 21:14:15)

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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

@ramses: Ok, I understand. I just thought that the second monitor pair will be able to benefit from the ADI as well. But maybe I am overthinking it. Anyway, thanks for helping, I pulled the trigger for the UCX II :-).

Mac Mini M2 Pro 16GB RAM - RME FIREFACE 802 - LOGIC PRO
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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

flumee wrote:

I wasn't sure if I should post this to Total Mix or here.
I've been using old Babyface for about 8 years but didn't really look deep into Total mix so far. My monitor controller stopped working and was searching if there was a way to connect 2 sets of monitors directly to Babyface.
I saw a few postings saying that I can set Speaker B to phone3/4 output so that I can have control over the secondary speakers as well. When I do that, would I not be able to use headphones?
I'm sorry for the newbie question, but it seems that I can't assign any more output to my actual headphones.\
I would appreciate your help!

Hi

with Totalmix you just do two mixes:

Mix1= MonitorA
Mix2= MonitorB

If BB has two outputs it would be enough for two monitors.

I do this with UFX II (12 analog outputs, 2x8 digital outputs)

Comparison is very easy:
Switch between Mix1 and Mix2 in Totalmix.

Peter

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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

Peter, the problem is ... BBF has only one pair of balanced outputs for active monitors.
Then it has two outputs for headphones with different plug and impedance and power.
You could of course use it also to plug headphones and 2nd pair of monitors unbalanced, BUT ..
In the design of the BBF Pro the two headphone outputs have no separate volume management.
One fader for the two stereo outputs.
Therefore it is better, to use the UCX II ....
Then you can really switch between two pair of monitors and separately use headphones and connect even more devices.

UFX II would even be more nicer as you have more options for ports, analog and digital.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

okay, I assumed BB has each output separate in Totalmix like UFX II smile


Peter

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Re: How do I route two sets of monitors for A/B comparison purpose?

Nope wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13