• Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Topic: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Hi all,

First post here, thank you for having me!

I am expecting my new Audio PC to arrive in the next few weeks and have a question you might be able to help with…

The PC in question will be fitted with an RME HDSPE RayDat card, this will give me 4 pairs of ADAT inputs and outputs. I will also be purchasing the Word Clock Module card which will give me 1 Word Clock in and 2 Word Clock outs.

I plan to purchase a couple of the Scarlett OctoPre units to use for my inputs and outputs. I’ll be running at 96kHz and will therefore be using the 1-4 and 5-8 ADAT outputs of each unit back to the RayDat. Two OctoPre units will occupy all of the available ADAT inputs on my RME card.

My question relates to the use of Word Clock with the Scarlett OctoPre units.

I understand the Word Clock inputs of the Scarlett OctoPre are terminated. Am I able to connect them in the following manner(s), thus using only one of my available Word Clock outputs on the RME?

RME Word Clock Out -> BNC Cable -> T Splitter on OctoPre 1 In -> BNC Cable -> T Splitter on OctoPre 2 In -> 75 Ohm Termination

Or

RME Word Clock Out -> BNC Cable -> T Splitter on OctoPre 1 In - BNC Cable -> OctoPre 2 In

Or

Do I need to use both Word Clock outputs from my RME device with one cable going to each Scarlett OctoPre?

I appreciate any assistance you can offer hivemind!

I’d love to purchase RME preamps but my PC cost £3500 and there’s not much money left

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-01-02 15:09:47)

  • ramses
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Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

> Do I need to use both Word Clock outputs from my RME device with one cable going to each Scarlett OctoPre?

You can build a serial sequence of devices connecting to their WC input using T connectors.
At the 1st and last device you terminate with a resistor.

If your Preamps or AD/DA converter has an ADAT input, then you can use this for clock sync, in this case you do not need WC.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

ramses wrote:

> Do I need to use both Word Clock outputs from my RME device with one cable going to each Scarlett OctoPre?

You can build a serial sequence of devices connecting to their WC input using T connectors.
At the 1st and last device you terminate with a resistor.

If your Preamps or AD/DA converter has an ADAT input, then you can use this for clock sync, in this case you do not need WC.

Unfortunately the OctPre’s don’t have ADAT in otherwise that would be my first choice.

I might me misunderstanding the resistor bit from your response though, I’m not yet familiar with Word Clock.

How would I terminate the first device with a resistor and what is considered the first device?

The OctoPre units are both pre terminated.

  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Basically can I do this with the RayDat, WCM and 2 OctoPre units:

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/me … ration.png

  • ramses
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Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

+1 nice drawing, thanks :-)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

ramses wrote:

+1 nice drawing, thanks :-)

So I can do that with just the one 75 Ohm termination at the end tee?

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-01-02 19:20:22)

  • ramses
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Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

I read from MC in this forum, that WC termination is not so "picky" like termination was in old computer networks when using such cables for Ethernet.

It could even be, that the master clocks have (maybe always) such a termination or switchable / configurable, so that the guy who made this drawing left it simply out intentionally.
But then he should better have added an informaiton like "termination internally enabled".

If the last device in a chain has an internal resistor, that you can turn on and off then it should even be possible to simply put the last BNC cable straight into the last device.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

ramses wrote:

I read from MC in this forum, that WC termination is not so "picky" like termination was in old computer networks when using such cables for Ethernet.

It could even be, that the master clocks have (maybe always) such a termination or switchable / configurable, so that the guy who made this drawing left it simply out intentionally.
But then he should better have added an informaiton like "termination internally enabled".

If the last device in a chain has an internal resistor, that you can turn on and off then it should even be possible to simply put the last BNC cable straight into the last device.

The picture was just a generic one, not specific to the Scarlett OctoPre.

The termination in the OctoPre is not switchable, it’s always on.

Having said that the Word Clock signal would only be going to the ins of both of the Focusrite expanders anyway so termination ought not to matter I assume, the signal gets passed on via the T plug not back out.

With that in mind:

RME Word Clock Module -> BNC Cable -> T Plug OctoPre 1 in -> T plug through BNC Cable -> OctoPre 2 in (should be terminated already)

I think anyway.

  • From: Utah, USA
  • Registered: 2020-10-08
  • Posts: 104

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Might be worth picking up the Octopre Dynamic models, they have ADAT in for clocking, and the analog outputs are addressable for routing to monitors and headphone amps. The FX can be useful since the RayDAT doesn't have DSP.

2x MADI FX | Digiface Dante | Fireface UFX+ | ADI-192 DD
  • Registered: 2019-02-14
  • Posts: 148

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Ninbura wrote:

Might be worth picking up the Octopre Dynamic models, they have ADAT in for clocking, and the analog outputs are addressable for routing to monitors and headphone amps. The FX can be useful since the RayDAT doesn't have DSP.

Unfortunately Focusrite only has 108-109db dynamic range, so it's not up to par with RME gear from the past two decades lol

Damn, I've become an RME fanboy.

  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

torbenscharling wrote:
Ninbura wrote:

Might be worth picking up the Octopre Dynamic models, they have ADAT in for clocking, and the analog outputs are addressable for routing to monitors and headphone amps. The FX can be useful since the RayDAT doesn't have DSP.

Unfortunately Focusrite only has 108-109db dynamic range, so it's not up to par with RME gear from the past two decades lol

Damn, I've become an RME fanboy.

Money no object I would undoubtedly buy RME…

12 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-01-04 12:39:43)

  • ramses
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Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Money no objective ?

Best combination: UFX+ and Octamic XTC as Auxdevice (with remore control through TM FX using "MIDI over MADI").
Or alternatively 12Mic, there Auxdevice support is promised.
As of now remote control
- through LAN with internet browser or
- MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33276

And in case money is really no objective:
- UFX+
- one or more 12Mic via MADI
and on top
- ADI-2 Pro FS R BE for monitoring section
- ARC USB

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

ramses wrote:

Money no objective ?

Best combination: UFX+ and Octamic XTC as Auxdevice (with remore control through TM FX using "MIDI over MADI").
Or alternatively 12Mic, there Auxdevice support is promised.
As of now remote control
- through LAN with internet browser or
- MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33276

And in case money is really no objective:
- UFX+
- one or more 12Mic via MADI
and on top
- ADI-2 Pro FS R BE for monitoring section
- ARC USB

Sorry, what I meant was “if I could spend unlimited money I’d go RME”, unfortunately I don’t and have limited funds after dropping £3500 on a new PC…

  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Ninbura wrote:

Might be worth picking up the Octopre Dynamic models, they have ADAT in for clocking, and the analog outputs are addressable for routing to monitors and headphone amps. The FX can be useful since the RayDAT doesn't have DSP.

Looking in to that now

15 Reply by Ninbura (edited by Ninbura 2022-01-06 23:22:05)

  • From: Utah, USA
  • Registered: 2020-10-08
  • Posts: 104

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Hey just wanted to reach out again as I found out that the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 can be run in standalone mode.

It has adat in and out like the Octopre Dynamic, so it can clock over adat, and the outputs are re-routable. Additionally, its pre-amps have more headroom, 56dB on the 18i20 3rd gen vs 50dB on the Octopre models. Not sure how useful the headphone outputs are in standalone, but you can probably route something to them if you wanted.

It's $100 cheaper than the Octopre Dynamic, seems well worth it if you have no reason to use the compressors on the Octopre Dynamic.

2x MADI FX | Digiface Dante | Fireface UFX+ | ADI-192 DD
  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Ninbura wrote:

Hey just wanted to reach out again as I found out that the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 can be run in standalone mode.

It has adat in and out like the Octopre Dynamic, so it can clock over adat, and the outputs are re-routable. Additionally, its pre-amps have more headroom, 56dB on the 18i20 3rd gen vs 50dB on the Octopre models. Not sure how useful the headphone outputs are in standalone, but you can probably route something to them if you wanted.

It's $100 cheaper than the Octopre Dynamic, seems well worth it if you have to reason to use the compressors on the Octopre Dynamic.

I’ve ordered 2 of the Scarlett OctoPre Dynamics anyway, I’d rather have dedicated inputs and outputs without all of the other gubbins. Less to go wrong

17 Reply by Ninbura (edited by Ninbura 2022-01-07 01:26:20)

  • From: Utah, USA
  • Registered: 2020-10-08
  • Posts: 104

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

starlet.glued wrote:

I’ve ordered 2 of the Scarlett OctoPre Dynamics anyway, I’d rather have dedicated inputs and outputs without all of the other gubbins. Less to go wrong

Nice, should work great!

I've been trying to decide what to do myself... At first, I bought a standard Octopre but returned it once I realized I didn't have control of the outputs. I don't need the compressors on the Dynamic model since I'd be running it into a UFX+ which has DSP, so the increase in price felt unjustified. I almost pulled the trigger on a Behringer ADA8200, but I've heard too many horror stories about crosstalk and pre-amps going out.

The 18i20 3rd gen seems like a happy medium, ADAT in / out, no fx, but a welcome 6dB of gain for dynamic mics. I picked one up, we'll see how it goes.

2x MADI FX | Digiface Dante | Fireface UFX+ | ADI-192 DD
  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Ninbura wrote:
starlet.glued wrote:

I’ve ordered 2 of the Scarlett OctoPre Dynamics anyway, I’d rather have dedicated inputs and outputs without all of the other gubbins. Less to go wrong

Nice, should work great!

I've been trying to decide what to do myself... At first, I bought a standard Octopre but returned it once I realized I didn't have control of the outputs. I don't need the compressors on the Dynamic model since I'd be running it into a UFX+ which has DSP, so the increase in price felt unjustified. I almost pulled the trigger on a Behringer ADA8200, but I've heard too many horror stories about crosstalk and pre-amps going out.

The 18i20 3rd gen seems like a happy medium, ADAT in / out, no fx, but a welcome 6dB of gain for dynamic mics. I picked one up, we'll see how it goes.

@Ninbura Out of interest in what way did you not have control of the outputs on the standard OctoPre?

I actually have a Behringer ADA8200 that’s been in use with my G1 Babyface but fancy working in 96kHz with the RayDat going forward.

In fairness it hasn’t let me down but I’m also aware it’s a budget unit, I don’t feel comfortable relying on it and feel that Behringer’s ethics are a bit wonky at times too (and I’m a bit of a snob).

I feel the trade off in price between the standard Scarlett OctoPre and the Dynamic version is worthwhile for me. I’ll run everything via Toslink ADAT without the need for Wordclock.

I have a lot hardware synths and drum machines so the compressors could come in handy in a DAWless situation, not to mention that there’s less to fail given that there’s no actual sound card inside of the units.

  • From: Utah, USA
  • Registered: 2020-10-08
  • Posts: 104

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

starlet.glued wrote:

@Ninbura Out of interest in what way did you not have control of the outputs on the standard OctoPre?

The analog outputs on the standard Octopre are tied directly to the analog inputs, so if you plug a mic into input one, output one will also be that mic. Where as with the 18i20 or the Octopre Dynamic the analog outputs are tied to the ADAT inputs, meaning you can route anything you want out of them with Totalmix.

In my case I have an 8 channel headphone amp, so I can send the 8 outputs from the 18i20 into the headphone amp and drive 4 pairs of stereo headphones, each with their own mix.

starlet.glued wrote:

I have a lot hardware synths and drum machines so the compressors could come in handy in a DAWless situation, not to mention that there’s less to fail given that there’s no actual sound card inside of the units.

I wonder if this is really a possibility. If the 18i20 is running in standalone mode with mics going out of ADAT 1-8, and ADAT 1-8 input going to analog outputs. Is it really more prone to failure when compared to an Octopre? Even though the additional hardware is not being used? Could the same be said that with the Octopre Dynamic the 8 compressors are new points of failure?

Either way, I'm not seeing anything online about any of these units failing. But yeah like I was saying I have 0 use for the compressors on the Dynamic because my UFX+ has compression with more control, and the mics are going direct into the UFX+ over ADAT.  On top of that the Pre Amps in the 18i20 3rd gen are newer than the ones in the Dynamic, and have more headroom. So I'd actually be losing functionality by using the Dynamic over the 18i20, since DSP is already handled by my UFX+. Couple this with additional $100 in cost, for me this is a no brainer.

I think this article nicely lays out which unit you would use in each use case:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.soundo … amic%3famp

"The only question, then, if you’re considering acquiring something like this, is what you need from your ADAT expander. For mic preamps alone, the Scarlett OctoPre ticks all the right boxes. If you want two-way ADAT conversion and on-board analogue compressors, the OctoPre Dynamic offers these. And if you want the two-way conversion without the compressors, you might consider setting up a Scarlett 18i20 as a stand-alone converter."

2x MADI FX | Digiface Dante | Fireface UFX+ | ADI-192 DD
  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Ninbura wrote:
starlet.glued wrote:

@Ninbura Out of interest in what way did you not have control of the outputs on the standard OctoPre?

The analog outputs on the standard Octopre are tied directly to the analog inputs, so if you plug a mic into input one, output one will also be that mic. Where as with the 18i20 or the Octopre Dynamic the analog outputs are tied to the ADAT inputs, meaning you can route anything you want out of them with Totalmix.

In my case I have an 8 channel headphone amp, so I can send the 8 outputs from the 18i20 into the headphone amp and drive 4 pairs of stereo headphones, each with their own mix.

starlet.glued wrote:

I have a lot hardware synths and drum machines so the compressors could come in handy in a DAWless situation, not to mention that there’s less to fail given that there’s no actual sound card inside of the units.

I wonder if this is really a possibility. If the 18i20 is running in standalone mode with mics going out of ADAT 1-8, and ADAT 1-8 input going to analog outputs. Is it really more prone to failure when compared to an Octopre? Even though the additional hardware is not being used? Could the same be said that with the Octopre Dynamic the 8 compressors are new points of failure?

Either way, I'm not seeing anything online about any of these units failing. But yeah like I was saying I have 0 use for the compressors on the Dynamic because my UFX+ has compression with more control, and the mics are going direct into the UFX+ over ADAT.  On top of that the Pre Amps in the 18i20 3rd gen are newer than the ones in the Dynamic, and have more headroom. So I'd actually be losing functionality by using the Dynamic over the 18i20, since DSP is already handled by my UFX+. Couple this with additional $100 in cost, for me this is a no brainer.

I think this article nicely lays out which unit you would use in each use case:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.soundo … amic%3famp

"The only question, then, if you’re considering acquiring something like this, is what you need from your ADAT expander. For mic preamps alone, the Scarlett OctoPre ticks all the right boxes. If you want two-way ADAT conversion and on-board analogue compressors, the OctoPre Dynamic offers these. And if you want the two-way conversion without the compressors, you might consider setting up a Scarlett 18i20 as a stand-alone converter."

Well put, I reckon I’ll get some use from the compressors anyway. I’ll have to as they’ve now been purchased smile

  • From: Utah, USA
  • Registered: 2020-10-08
  • Posts: 104

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

starlet.glued wrote:

Well put, I reckon I’ll get some use from the compressors anyway. I’ll have to as they’ve now been purchased smile

I mean it sounds like the Dynamic model is perfect for your situation, it's chill that Scarlett sells 3 different solutions.

Let us know if you run anything weird, I'll do the same.

2x MADI FX | Digiface Dante | Fireface UFX+ | ADI-192 DD
  • Registered: 2022-01-02
  • Posts: 20

Re: HDSPe RayDat Word Clock

Ninbura wrote:
starlet.glued wrote:

Well put, I reckon I’ll get some use from the compressors anyway. I’ll have to as they’ve now been purchased smile

I mean it sounds like the Dynamic model is perfect for your situation, it's chill that Scarlett sells 3 different solutions.

Let us know if you run anything weird, I'll do the same.

Will do.