Topic: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

Hello all,

I use two different sources for my ADI-2-DAC. One is USB and the other is optical. The optical source comes from an Audiolab 6000N streamer which I use for things like Spotify or Sirius XM. The USB is directly from my music server.

The issue I'm having is that the auto-sensing feature of the ADI-2-DAC will not switch to USB apparently because the 6000N is sending some a signal that is holding the ADI-2-DAC at the optical input.

Here's what I got from Audiolab: "When connected, it will offer a low-level signal to confirm connection (like a trigger connection) - hence his DAC thinking it is connected. This is a Play-Fi protocol, not strictly Audiolab’s setting."

So my question is whether the DAC could be made (through a firmware upgrade) to have some sort of input detection setting so that a signal at a level as low as what they're talking about would not be enough to prevent the DAC from switching to another input when audio is coming through the other input. Of course this would need to happen in a way that a quiet part in a song is not confused with the situation I'm describing where no audio at all is being played into the streaming device.

I bet this could help people with plenty of other source devices...but I'm not technical enough to know if it's possible.

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

1. ch 9.1 - you can select the source using the buttons on the remote: "COAX" "OPT" "USB"

Not so comfortably: ch 12.1 - source selectable via I/O menue, then save to two different configs and use remap key feature to recall

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by KaiS 2022-01-12 21:11:21)

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

rossputin wrote:

The issue I'm having is that the auto-sensing feature of the ADI-2-DAC will not switch to USB apparently because the 6000N is sending some a signal that is holding the ADI-2-DAC at the optical input.

Here's what I got from Audiolab: "When connected, it will offer a low-level signal to confirm connection (like a trigger connection) - hence his DAC thinking it is connected. This is a Play-Fi protocol, not strictly Audiolab’s setting."
...
So my question is whether the DAC could be made (through a firmware upgrade) to have some sort of input detection setting so that a signal at a level as low as what they're talking about would not be enough to prevent the DAC from switching to another input when audio is coming through the other input...

Besides that you can switch manually -
SPDIF sends a carrier signal even if no audio is present.
This is what ADI-2 detects.

Only if you switch off your 6000N ADI-2 would select another input automatically.

Something that I don’t understand: normally ADI-2 should prioritize USB, see manual page 7.

4 (edited by Curt962 2022-01-13 21:11:06)

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

Let's recheck this.

Pg 20 of the current User Manual (v 2.9) states that SPDIF is prioritized.

Perhaps in this case with a device sending out a weird carrier signal, it's better to de-select "Auto", and simply manually choose the input source on a case by case basis?  We've done things in this manner for years.

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

5 (edited by ramses 2022-01-13 22:18:37)

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

KaiS wrote:
rossputin wrote:

The issue I'm having is that the auto-sensing feature of the ADI-2-DAC will not switch to USB apparently because the 6000N is sending some a signal that is holding the ADI-2-DAC at the optical input.

Here's what I got from Audiolab: "When connected, it will offer a low-level signal to confirm connection (like a trigger connection) - hence his DAC thinking it is connected. This is a Play-Fi protocol, not strictly Audiolab’s setting."
...
So my question is whether the DAC could be made (through a firmware upgrade) to have some sort of input detection setting so that a signal at a level as low as what they're talking about would not be enough to prevent the DAC from switching to another input when audio is coming through the other input...

Besides that you can switch manually -
SPDIF sends a carrier signal even if no audio is present.
This is what ADI-2 detects.

Only if you switch off your 6000N ADI-2 would select another input automatically.

Something that I don’t understand: normally ADI-2 should prioritize USB, see manual page 7.

Only if "Source" is set to "Auto" (I/O – Line Out – Settings - Source),  maybe this is not the case here?!

"[...]Source allows to play back an SPDIF input signal even when USB is connected. When not con-nected to USB the ADI-2 DAC will work as SPDIF to analog converter. In mode Source Auto the input is switched to SPDIF automatically as soon as USB is no longer detected.[...]"

But as Curt tells, on page 20:

"[...]Source
Source of the analog output signal: Auto, SPDIF coax, Optical, USB, USB (Rec coax), USB (Rec opt.). Default: Auto. In Auto mode detected SPDIF signals will have priority over USB playback.
[...]"

The information in the ADI-2 DAC manual (v2.9) is contradictory.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

6 (edited by Curt962 2022-01-13 23:34:37)

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

Hi Ramses! Where ya been Man?  We missed you.

On prioritization:   I just tested it by turning on Wife's TV which is connected to my RME via TOS, and SPDIF indeed takes center stage!     My active USB input was immediately given the Boot.
(My Source select is set to Auto)

In my interpretation of Pg.20,  I think RME spells it out the Way it is!

Just sayin!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

Curt962 wrote:

Hi Ramses! Where ya been Man?  We missed you.

On prioritization:   I just tested it by turning on Wife's TV which is connected to my RME via TOS, and SPDIF indeed takes center stage!     My active USB input was immediately given the Boot.
(My Source select is set to Auto)

In my interpretation of Pg.20,  I think RME spells it out the Way it is!

Just sayin!

Curt

Sounds still like a contradition to me (or my English and deepl.com are not well enough) wink

So what has precedence, when source is on "auto" and  both (USB and SPDIF) are connected ? USB or SPDIF ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

8 (edited by Curt962 2022-01-14 00:57:16)

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

My 10minute old test result indicates SPDIF takes priority.  Kicked USB off the air immediately.

Not about being "connected" (Wife's TV is always connected)   

ACTIVE is the operative word.

So, it seems the OP has the choice of either turning OFF his Streaming device, or simply de-selecting "Auto", and choosing the desired input source easily via Remote, or Front Panel input.

TESTED:  Merely de-selecting Auto, and setting my primary source (USB) renders Wife's TV input (spdif) meaningless unless selected by me. 

Rasputin can take this to the Bank!    His troubles are over!   \ big_smile /

Ja? 

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

9 (edited by Johannes AU 2022-01-14 05:31:36)

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

Curt962 wrote:

My 10minute old test result indicates SPDIF takes priority.  Kicked USB off the air immediately.

Not about being "connected" (Wife's TV is always connected)   

ACTIVE is the operative word.

So, it seems the OP has the choice of either turning OFF his Streaming device, or simply de-selecting "Auto", and choosing the desired input source easily via Remote, or Front Panel input.

TESTED:  Merely de-selecting Auto, and setting my primary source (USB) renders Wife's TV input (spdif) meaningless unless selected by me. 

Rasputin can take this to the Bank!    His troubles are over!   \ big_smile /

Ja? 

Curt


Boney M smile

I made that mistake before, thought SPDIF overrides USB, then MC reminds me that can be select and the remote is the best device, no matter detection is Auto or not, short press the source you want at the remote .... one more short press at the same button can bring it to auto again.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

10

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

rossputin wrote:

So my question is whether the DAC could be made (through a firmware upgrade) to have some sort of input detection setting so that a signal at a level as low as what they're talking about would not be enough to prevent the DAC from switching to another input when audio is coming through the other input. Of course this would need to happen in a way that a quiet part in a song is not confused with the situation I'm describing where no audio at all is being played into the streaming device.

While this might be possible we have intentionally not added something like this, and won't add it in the future. This scheme is doomed to not work as the user needs it, would need several manually adjusted parameters added (like trigger level, timeout, hysteresis...) that make it cumbersome, complicated and still not guaranteed to work as expected in any case.

And all this for not using the remote?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

Quote: “ In mode Source Auto the input is switched to SPDIF automatically as soon as USB is no longer detected.[...]"

Quote: “ In Auto mode detected SPDIF signals will have priority over USB playback.[...]"

Quote: “The information in the ADI-2 DAC manual (v2.9) is contradictory.”


With tremendous respect to our greatly esteemed and appreciated, regular contributor.

My reading of these two statements was that rather than being contradictory, they both are, quite simply, two different ways, of stating, precisely the same thing.

The salient, essential point being Curt’s usefully practical observation: “My 10 minute old test result indicates SPDIF takes priority.  Kicked USB off the air immediately.”


English can be a difficult language to understand, even for native English speakers. For instance, just today, this very morning I received the following:

“When I was young my father said to me: “Knowledge is power, Francis Bacon.” I understood it as “Knowledge is power, France is bacon.”

For more than a decade I wondered over the meaning of the second part and what was the surreal linkage between the two? If I said the quote to someone, “Knowledge is power, France is Bacon,” they nodded knowingly.

Or someone might say, “Knowledge is power” and I’d finish the quote “France is bacon,” and they wouldn’t look at me like I’d said something very odd, but thoughtfully agree.

I did ask a teacher what did “Knowledge is power, France is bacon” mean? And got a full ten minute explanation of the “knowledge is power” bit, but nothing on “France is bacon.”

When I prompted further explanation by saying “France is bacon?” in a questioning tone, I just got a “yes.”

I didn’t have the confidence to press it further. I just accepted it as something I’d never understand.

It wasn’t until years later I saw it written down that the penny dropped.”


The "penny" here is, use the remote!

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

But I want Bacon!   big_smile

Curt.

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

CrispyChips wrote:

English can be a difficult language to understand, even for native English speakers. For instance, just today, this very morning I received the following:

“When I was young my father said to me: “Knowledge is power, Francis Bacon.” I understood it as “Knowledge is power, France is bacon.”

For more than a decade I wondered over the meaning of the second part and what was the surreal linkage between the two? If I said the quote to someone, “Knowledge is power, France is Bacon,” they nodded knowingly.

Or someone might say, “Knowledge is power” and I’d finish the quote “France is bacon,” and they wouldn’t look at me like I’d said something very odd, but thoughtfully agree.

I did ask a teacher what did “Knowledge is power, France is bacon” mean? And got a full ten minute explanation of the “knowledge is power” bit, but nothing on “France is bacon.”

When I prompted further explanation by saying “France is bacon?” in a questioning tone, I just got a “yes.”

Haha!
I love this Lenin <--> Lennon confusion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z6gWVmmK-g

14 (edited by Curt962 2022-01-14 15:39:35)

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

Not to be outdone...  wink

My Son was learning the "Star Spangled Banner" in School.  Thinking that he was on the brink of a scientific revelation, He approached me with the question; "Dad...what is Donserly Light"??   

Resisting the urge to tell him that "Donserly Light" is a wavelength of light only visible in the early morning...We just looked at the Song Lyrics to reveal to him that it is actually "Dawn's Early Light"

The English Language.   Fun for the Whole Family!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

15

Re: Fix for constant clock (or other) signal blocking auto-switching?

Blinded by my own words - so to say. Ramses is right. The first statement is wrong/misleading in German and English manual:

> In mode Source Auto the input is switched to SPDIF automatically as soon as USB is no longer detected

This implies that as long as USB had been present it did NOT switch to SPDIF. But it did, as SPDIF has priority.

A correct version should be

In mode Source Auto the input is switched to SPDIF automatically as soon as an SPDIF signal is present

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME