1 (edited by eligit 2008-07-31 00:01:14)

Topic: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

Hi all...

hopefully somebody out there has recognized this issue and has some sort of solution.

the problem is quite simple.

When i open logic it changes the sample rate to 44.1 and there is no way to alter it.

When i try to change it in the "audio midi control panel" in osX (latest version) it briefly blinks to 88.2 on the front of my lavry DA....and then right back to 44.1.

Has anyone been able to record at 88.2 using either the same rig or something similar.

It is unclear where the actual problem lies....Logic or Rme...especially because everything is running flawlessly in other applications.

I should add that i am able to change the sample rate of the session IN logic....but nothing changes on the lavry front panel, audio midi control panel, or HDSPe control panel (which all still read 44.1).

i am using the latest rme drivers for this card.

thanks for any advice.

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

Hi,
I have a pretty similar issue (Benchmark Dac-1 D/A over here).
Eligit, Did you find out what's happening at last?
Others?
Thank you for your support

3

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

The latest driver has been optimized for Logic, everything works as it should. I wonder if you missed a firmware and/or driver update. Are you clocking the AES externallly?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

4 (edited by miserable 2008-10-06 13:06:46)

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

Hi Matthias, thank you very much for your help.  Eligit solved his issues with the drivers upgrade as you said, but that's not my case.
I have just recieved the HDSPe AES card and I'm trying to configure all my equipment and applications correctly but it is costing me more than I expected. No, I'm using it's internal clock at this moment, please let me get into details.

Equipment:
-Mac Pro 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (2 GB RAM)
-External Lacie drive connected via Firewire 800
-Mac OS X 10.5.5

-HDSPe AES-32 serial # 2284XXXX  fitted in slot-4 (1.1)
-HDSPe AES Mac OS X driver 2.64
-HDSPe Firmware Rev 2 (Flash Update 2.07)

-Logic 8.0.2
-Song project recorded at 24 Bit, 44.1 kHz

-Benchmark Dac1

AES-32 Settings:
Word Clock Out: Single speed clicked
Clock Mode: Master
Freq. 44.1 kHz
DDS: inactive

Once the AES-32's drivers and firmware have been installed, the usual audio applications work trouble free, but as soon as I start Logic 8 the ERROR light blinks on the DAC1 (absence of sound consequently), and stays in this way no matter what I try to do about the sequencer configuration. Then I quit Logic and test my audio applications again but there is no audio anymore (and the ERROR ligth remains on the DAC1), reboot the computer don't help either.
Strangely, I can only reverse this situation returning to the HDSPe Settings dialog. Activating the DDS setting dialog and clicking the Frequency Multiplier x2 (not x1, not x4, x2 only!) the Freq. format changes to 88.2, and audio returns (the Dac1 ERROR light turns off). DAC & card seems to work properly again (Freq. stays at 88.2 kHz), I can unclick the DDS active box even, everything works flawlessly except for my main DAW.

Thank you again for your effort about this convoluted issue.

5

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

miserable wrote:

-HDSPe AES-32 serial # 2284XXXX

Your card lost parts of the serial number (means parts of the flash memory), therefore doesn't work correctly anmyore. Please return it for repair/exchange.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

MC wrote:
miserable wrote:

-HDSPe AES-32 serial # 2284XXXX

Your card lost parts of the serial number (means parts of the flash memory), therefore doesn't work correctly anmyore. Please return it for repair/exchange.

No no, I made it on purpose Mathias, its serial number is 22843982 (From the "About" HDSPe setting dialog).I just want to point that the card is one of the currently shipping ones, sorry about confusion.

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

It seems like the HDSPe AES is unable to provide the clock my Logic project requires (44.1 kHz). Even the DDS "trick" is futile since I can't use the x1 Frequency Multiplier function (x2 and x4 only), so I can never match values manually. At the sample rate the RME card "force me" to work (88.2 kHz) Logic warns me -of course- about the mismatch between the project and the external device.

8

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

So it seems like Logic is set to 44.1 but somehow 88.2 is called for - all other applications don't do that. Ok, we'll check that again.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

MC wrote:

So it seems like Logic is set to 44.1 but somehow 88.2 is called for - all other applications don't do that. Ok, we'll check that again.

Yes, for example, when I restore the sound through DDS, I can open an audio archive at 24 Bit 48 kHz via the default Mac Pro audio player and it sounds (in first place), and it sounds fine (its sound quality is not diminished). It's strange because the HDSPe AES settings dialogue shows a clock of 88.2 kHZ all the time.

Thank you again for being in touch. The Aes card is with me since last Friday and it really urges me to go back to work asap.

Best regards,
Sergio

10 (edited by miserable 2008-10-07 13:10:59)

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

Further tests about the "supposely" restored signal at 88.2 through DDS & Freq. Multiplied (44.1 kHZ x2) report the following:

Although the Bechmark Dac1 understand there is a valid AES signal in its AES input this doesn't mean the audio applications & card are properly clocked.
The different computer audio applications "work" at any value which implies x2 or x4 in the DDS's Frequency Multiplier, but on contrary to my first supposition the sound turns out unstable (I think the biggest surprise was it wasn't so initially). It fluctuates more or less noticeably (I didn't noticed at the first time because I was more worried about the DAC1 shows a valid AES singnal in its AES input). I hadn't noticed, in fact, some of the (from time to time) glitches but at higher sample rates you can hear clearly the problem (setting the Frequency Multiplier 44.1 x4 = 176.4 kHz for example). Crackles or digital distortion on YouTube, ocassional drop outs when audio DVD/CD is playing are the consecuences.

I think we are not talking about a problem between Logic and the HDSPe AES at long last. The card's internal clock (master mode) is not self clocking to each audio application and I only try to force the clock to do what it should do automatically, the results? An unaccurate performance. Logic only warns about it and the other audio applications are not able to do it so (just shows the sound degraded).

What should I do now?

Thank you again for your care.

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

eligit wrote:

When i open logic it changes the sample rate to 44.1 and there is no way to alter it.

Can you be a little more specific about this? You seem to just accept that as a fact without examining it further.
To the best of my knowledge, the sample rate setting is not a global one in Logic, but selected individually in each audio project's parameters. There must be a way for Logic to play different sample rates and in the process switching the audio card accordingly. Just create or open a project at 96 and start playback, that should do it...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

12 (edited by miserable 2008-10-07 15:56:20)

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

I wrote to elegit because I thougth I had a similar problem (but mine seems much bigger than , in theory, a clock incompatibility between Logic and the AES card). Elegit told me that the drivers update solved his problem. Sorry about up this old topic with my issues, I can start a new topic to avoid any confusion if it is required.
Best wishes,
Sergio


RME Support wrote:
eligit wrote:

When i open logic it changes the sample rate to 44.1 and there is no way to alter it.

Can you be a little more specific about this? You seem to just accept that as a fact without examining it further.
To the best of my knowledge, the sample rate setting is not a global one in Logic, but selected individually in each audio project's parameters. There must be a way for Logic to play different sample rates and in the process switching the audio card accordingly. Just create or open a project at 96 and start playback, that should do it...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

13 (edited by miserable 2008-10-07 18:37:40)

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

To resume up my current problem, once the AES card, the drivers and the firmware were installed the internal Master Clock was at 44.1 kHz, after Logic was opened (a 24/44.1 project) this warning message appears: "ERROR trying to synchronize Audio and MIDI. 88220 sample rate recognized. Check conflict between Logic Pro and the external device." From this very moment I hasn't been able to return the card to 44.1 kHz, each time I use the DDS dialogue my next digital equipment in the chain don't recognize 44.1 AES signal at all from the card. I tried to reinstall drivers/firmware twice but the problem persists. I think I can do no more by myself. Daniel, Mathias, Should I return the card to RME, or to the web store?

Best regards,
Sergio

14

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

We did not find a problem in the driver and still think you got confused and did something wrong. Note this:

- When Logic is running with 44.1 kHz and you try to change the sample rate in the Audio MIDI control panel to 88.2, the frequency will change a brief moment then revert back to 44.1, because Logic noticed the change and corrects it immediately. You will not see this behaviour with other programs.

- Trying to fix the sample rate via DDS is no good idea either, as Logic again tries to set the sample rate defined in the project properties all the time, which is not possible now, then comes up with the error message.

That said, your last post just indicates that you loaded a 44.1 project in Logic while DDS was active and set to 88.2.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

15 (edited by miserable 2008-10-08 13:18:08)

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

Matthias,

to do the things right I reinstalled everything from the scratch (hard/soft) this morning.

Ok, the card's System Clock shows 44.1 kHz Master Mode, currently the problem is pretty simple, my digital equipment (Benchmark Dac1, Alesis Masterlink) don't recognize any AES signal in its AES inputs at this sample rate, no sound at all consequently. I tried to up the sample rate to 88.2 through DDS settings dialog and at this sample rate the digital equipment recognize a valid AES signal, then I returned the sample rate to 44.1 again and deactivate the DDS dialog. I played several wav audio archives through the default's Mac Pro Media Player at different sample rates (44.1, 48) but nothing change in the AES-32 settings, the HDSP Mixer shows completely normal activity playing the audio archives although. At 44.1 kHz Logic doesn't  show sample rate mismatch warnings but the external equipment don't recognize the AES signal either.

My english really is not good enough to explain it better.

Kind regards,
Sergio

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

Try setting the card as clock master and looping an AES output signal back into an AES input of the card (e.g. from 1/2 to 3/4 to avoid feedback loops). Now do you see this signal in the input section of the HDSP mixer?

Regards,
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

17 (edited by miserable 2008-10-08 13:34:35)

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

Yes, In3 and In4 shows activity

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

Then the problem could be the external gear somehow - are these devices set to sync to AES input? Do they communicate with each other? Do they send AES/EBU to the HDSP correctly?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

19 (edited by miserable 2008-10-08 13:59:46)

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

miserable wrote:

Yes, In3 and In4 shows activity

Is it normal that the In3 In4 incoming signal from the Out1 Out2 is 40 dBs below than the original signal?

It behaves in that way.

RME Support wrote:

Then the problem could be the external gear somehow - are these devices set to sync to AES input? Do they communicate with each other? Do they send AES/EBU to the HDAP correctly?

Yes it is a very simple DAC, only have an AES/SPDIF input and it is a slave only device, it is clocked through the digital input (I have just tested another digital equipment with it and works flawlesly at every sample rate)

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

miserable wrote:

Is it normal that the In3 In4 incoming signal from the Out1 Out2 is 40 dBs below than the original signal?

No...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

RME Support wrote:

No...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Ouch!

Is it could be a physical problem?

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

MC wrote:

We did not find a problem in the driver and still think you got confused and did something wrong. Note this:

- When Logic is running with 44.1 kHz and you try to change the sample rate in the Audio MIDI control panel to 88.2, the frequency will change a brief moment then revert back to 44.1, because Logic noticed the change and corrects it immediately. You will not see this behaviour with other programs.

- Trying to fix the sample rate via DDS is no good idea either, as Logic again tries to set the sample rate defined in the project properties all the time, which is not possible now, then comes up with the error message.

That said, your last post just indicates that you loaded a 44.1 project in Logic while DDS was active and set to 88.2.

I think you are right, when I was struggling the settings dialog to get a valid signal in the DAC1 I probably activated the DDS at 88.2 (in this way the DAC recognized a valid signal). I opened Logic after that and the warning messages start to flash.

The problem was not a compatibility issue with Logic as I thought at first, the card was simply unable to provide me a valid AES output signal in Master Mode (DDS inactive).

I have started to think that the card Thomann sent me is defective.

Thank you for your good wisdom,

Sergio

23

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

So after all this messing confusion the final point will be that you purchased the wrong AES breakout cables, wired for Yamaha standard. RME uses Tascam standard. Bets taken...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

That's incredible Matthias, you are right!
The Zaolla AES breakout cable I was using, was hooked up to a 02r since a few days ago!!
(I thought YAMAHA & TASCAM share the same pinout!)...
Genius, It has been a case fitting for Sherlock Holmes no doubt about it.
Unfortunately I can't uncork the champaigne yet because I have no the proper breakout cable with me at this moment, but I'll report about it as soon as possible.
Matthias, Daniel, I'm sorry about the mess, I'm a real newby and really hope don't be remembered in the forum community for all this! smile
In any case, I think you have shown your priceless work one more time and in this case specially all your talent!!!
Best wishes,
Sergio

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

ALVA offers an adapter for the Yamaha <> TASCAM conversion: ALVA tools

best regards
Knut

Re: HDSPe AES/mac pro/Logic 7+8 serious problem

It is very kind from you, a serious option to be on the way again.

Thank you!