Topic: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Good morning everyone.
I managed to install a driver from 2017 (version 1099) for my babyface first gen on windows 7 and it seems to work.
Know I am a bit confused about how I should setup my microphone. The breakout cable has "line in r", line in l", but I don't have any cable called "microphone-in".

My microphone doesn't need the 48volts. I have the choice to either use my microphone with my analogical preamp which would require a line level input on the babyface, or to use the microphone without my analogical preamp which would require a microphone-level input on the babyface.

I don't know yet if I need the analogical preamp, I'm thinking it might be good for the babyface in the sens that the babyface would have to draw less power.

Also I haven't plugged anything for now except my headphones, and the second green led from the bottom of the left channel on the babyface is constantly blinking. Is that normal ?
Thank you.

2

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

You seem to have no manual with your used Babyface:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/bface_e.pdf

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

You're right to tease me, actually it's because I'm not much of a sound engineer. I've read he manual, but It doesn't say what you have to do concretely to set either a line level input or a microphone level input.

If I understand well the line-in input cable of the breakout cable can be used either as a line level input or as a microphone level input, but the manual doesn't say how it works. Does the babyface first gen automatically detects the level when you plug your gear into it or do you have to push a button, tick an option box, or adjust the volume somewhere to choose between line level and microphone level?

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

He, he!
We all like to tease, a bit, about reading the manual ! But only because it 's such a good manual, with lots of info!

You don't need your analog preamp with the BabyFace, unless it 's one that you really like.
Just connect your mic to Liine In L or R. The signal will be reflected in TotalMixFX AN1 or AN2.

First select the output you like to use, Phones or Main monitors(3rd row in TotalMixFX), by clicking on it. It will be highlighted.
With that Output selected, go to the 1st row of TMFX, where the Inputs are.
Click on the "tool"/wrench symbol for your Mic Input. Then the settings tab will appear.
Now, just turn the gain up to a nice level. If "Pad" is lit(activated), click on it to de-activate it!
Since you don't need 48V, keep that setting de-activated, as well.
Now, you can turn the fader of AN1 or 2, up to the level you like.

If you want to use your preamp, you would, probably, need to activate "Pad" and adjust the gain accordingly!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

5 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-14 11:01:22)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Thanks Metalheadkeys!
Now I just have to connect the line out cables of my babyface to the line inputs of my unbalanced listening equipment.


From the manual :

The short circuit protected, low impedance line outputs do not operate servo balanced! When connecting unbalanced equipment, make sure pin 3 of the XLR output is not connected. A connection to ground will cause a decreased THD (higher distortion) and in-creased power consumption!

How do I make sure to get the right cable for that? I have a specialized shop by my house but I wonder if they're aware of such stuff. They might just sell me some cable with no indication on the box.


This too is problematic, I don't quite understand :

When using unbalanced cables with the XLR breakout cable: be sure to connect the 'ring' contact of a stereo TRS jack, and pin 3 of a XLR jack, to ground. Otherwise noise may occur, caused by the unconnected negative input of the balanced input.

6

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

That's presented here out of context - it's about the input side, not the outputs (first quote).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

7 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-15 05:42:49)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

So this quote is about the inputs (line-in) of the babyface? Is that right?

When using unbalanced cables with the XLR breakout cable: be sure to connect the 'ring' contact of a stereo TRS jack, and pin 3 of a XLR jack, to ground. Otherwise noise may occur, caused by the unconnected negative input of the balanced input.

8 (edited by waedi 2022-01-15 18:31:35)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

judelaw wrote:

How do I make sure to get the right cable for that? I have a specialized shop by my house but I wonder if they're aware of such stuff. They might just sell me some cable with no indication on the box.

The name of this cable is XLR-cable or Microphone-cable.
There are different plugs on both ends, it's impossible to connect it wrong. No need for any labeling.
The microphone has a socket at the bottom end.
Connect your cable there and connect the other end of the cable to one of the Line-Ins of the Babyface breakout-cable.
You also can take the Babyface and the mic to the shop and ask for help there.

M1-Monterey, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver

9 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-16 10:43:09)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

I bought a pair of "xlr to rca" cables and modified on both cables the neutrik xlr connector to make sure that pin 3 of the xlr connector was not connected to anything. Was I right to do that ?

I have sound but I get usb noise (noise that varies when you move the mouse and such). On the other end when using the phone output of the babyface the sound is clean (no noise at all).

Line out of the babyface is not usable at all. What did I do wrong?

10

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

This is called ground loop and needs changing the grounding, different power situation or isolating USB. Using the Babyface with a power supply sometimes helps, that would be the easiest solution. Using the XLR outputs in balanced mode would stop the noise as well, but as your monitoring amp is unbalanced you don't have that option...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Thank you Mr carsten,
That's what I was thinking, what should be the characteristics of a good power supply for the babyface first gen?

I was therefore thinking about using the toslink output of my computer motherboard (providing the babyface will work with it no questions asked, I hope so) and plug it into the toslink input of the babyface. But then I need to know what power supply to buy for it.

12

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Even then it is not guaranteed to work. Early versions of the BF mute the analog output if no USB power is present.

The power supply is the standard RME one, with 12 V and 2A. Alternatives will work as well.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

13 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-16 18:12:41)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Thanks a lot, that's good to know. Not a great thing though, but you just saved me some time and money.
Is mine an early version ?
Here is a photo of the sticker on the back of my babyface. unfortunately the sticker is damaged...
https://i.ibb.co/txDRWZ5/babyface-serial-number.jpg

Can I feed the babyface some usb power (not usb power from the computer) while connecting the babyface to my computer only through a toslink cable? Would that work well?

14

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Yes, that would work. Just plug the USB cable into the usual smartphone charger. With a good one you don't need the 12V power supply anymore.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

15 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-16 18:48:06)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Edit : I have that one laying around: https://www.hema.com/fr-fr/papeterie/or … 30068.html
https://www.hema.com/dw/image/v2/BBRK_P … 110_01.jpg

I don't if it's for phones.

16

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Try it. It's USB, so will either work ok or inject noise itself (chargers are sometimes very noisy).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

I'm stupid, I just have a toslink output on my motherboard. I tried but it's not working of course.

18 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-16 21:44:07)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

It would seem that I'm condemned to use the babyface only with the headphones and to monitor myself singing with the totalmix fx zero latency thingy. But there are some problems regarding that also. I can monitor the wet reverb of my voice but not my dry voice. Also only a 1024 buffer size works. When I switch the buffer size in the settings to any other value from 64 to 2048 the sound is destroyed, chopped.

19 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-16 21:58:19)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

If I can't make it work I'm probably going back to realtek. I think it will be workable as I got a newer motherboard with a magical coloured line that is supposed to protect the audio circuit from parasites or something. I'm quite disgusted at audio lately, all the things I could have done with the money I spent in fancy yet crippled gear. RME is my last effort, last shot, and the biggest one by far.

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Do you know what causes are for the buffer to give a destroyed sound at every sample rate but 1024?

21

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

First it is buffer size, not sample rate. Second changing that while ASIO and WDM is active is no good idea. Third on some computers WDM requires a setting of 256 or 128 samples.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

22 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-18 04:31:47)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

What is WDM?

23 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-18 10:34:00)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

I have 6 WDM devices activated in "fireface usb settings". So If I select 0 instead of 6 should the buffer size problem be over ?
What are the consequences of selecting 0 instead of 6 ? My browser won't work? Btw even with "6" the volume on my taskbar doesn't work (not a big deal though).

What if I choose zero in order to change the buffer size and then put the value back to 6 ? Would that work? As simple as that ?

24 (edited by judelaw 2022-01-18 10:40:25)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Or do I need also to deactivate Asio also while changing the buffer size ? I don't even know where is Asio (if it's installed at all on my computer as I don't see it either in the list of programs nor in my hard disk.)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Is a 128 samples buffer size low enough for perfect monitoring of myself singing? I'd hate it if I was late, I'm used to work with  absolute zero 100% analogical latency with reverb on my voice.
Where do I set the required WDM devices ?

As for applications I use reaper, for me only reaper requires zero latency monitoring, the rest (browser, vlc and mphc) don't require it).

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

so I have to download and install asio ?

27 (edited by judelaw 2022-02-10 01:37:46)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Can I have a exhaustive list of all codes names please ?

PH 3/4
AN 1
An 1/2
ADAT
Phones 1
Main
A/S 1/2
etc...

What each one means, in extensive details. I'm just lost. Also the command "Option/reset mix/total reset" doesn't reset everything, for instance I changed from "submix" to "free" (don't even know what it means), yet after the reset "free" was still selected. Same goes for the AN 1 column in hardware inputs, if I click on the bottom of it and choose another code name and then do a total reset, it doesn't change it back.

28 (edited by judelaw 2022-02-10 02:22:35)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Or can someone just show me a screenshot of what codes I need to choose and where to put them in order to have a mix in my headphone of my voice through the microphone with added reverb (any reverb really...) and reaper's playback of the instumental track. I just want to sing. I'm not asking for a "We are the world" 20 celebrity monitoring setup...

Please don't ask me to read the manual, I did try last month, almost fell asleep, and abandoned. I'm sorry to say that it's not well done at all (lack of concrete example of how to set everything for a simple task). The chubby RME guy on youtube is no better help, even if he looks like a respectable person of course.

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

I'd really like to have a clear view of things. The manual are tutorial are somehow too short, too general.

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

come on... These are links to the rme youtube guy,

Look at this video it's plain stupid, the title is "Vocal Recording with RME Audio Interfaces"and he doesn't even talk about monitoring, how pro is that ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuehoWIhsUc

I won't even mention the 1 minute long introduction for nothing "click on my channel blabla..." on a 1.30mn long video, well I just did. There is no info in that video whatsoever.

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

The intention is to save some time so that I do not have to type this again and again (am customer like you).

Well it doesn't work. I spent hours trying to figure. If you want to save your time maybe you should consider letting others answer instead of giving the impression that the question is answered by giving general random links like a bot.

I'm sorry to be so rude, but I'm just asking simple and precise questions. I hate it when people say "google is your friend", "read the manual", of course I did these things, everybody does these things first, but not everybody is meant to be an engineer, some people just need concrete, precise, exhaustive, and complete answers.

32 (edited by judelaw 2022-02-11 00:56:08)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

The most funny is that they keep repeating that Totamix effect is a powerfull tool. Yet no one can tell me what those stupid code names are :  an ph adat as, what they concretely mean, why I can't reset the whole damn thing etc.

33 (edited by judelaw 2022-02-11 00:49:59)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

It's like they make it complicated on purpose so that audio engineers who work in studios think they actually possess some precious knowledge that others don't have.

They couldn't just write "microphone", "line", etc... but no, they had to use those stupid codes, just like soviets though they sounded cool by using acronyms all the time.

And wait : We won't give you the codes that easily, you can't understand everything on the first day. Read for a week, read again, and again, and in one or two years, then, maybe you'll be so proud to belong to the elite of people who are actually able to use a RME product.

34 (edited by judelaw 2022-02-11 01:15:12)

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

How can I make my question more simple?
I have :
-Babyface old gen.
-A Microphone that doesn't need 48volt phantom power plugged in a breakout cable cable named "Line In L".
-Headphones plugged in a breakout cable cable named PHONES.

THAT'S IT!

All I want is to hear in my headphones a mix between an instrumental track played in reaper, and my voice with 0 latency (I already managed to set 64 samples as buffer size), and add some reverb on my voice to make it more pleasant.

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

And what do these code mean?

Why can't I reset the whole totalmix software ?

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Well it would seem I managed somehow. I'm not satisfied with the echo though. Where do I find tmrv files? For what I understand these are ready-made reverb settings.

I'm not used to turn knobs to make my own reverb, I'm used to choose from a set of many already made reverbs such as cathedral, large/small room, garage, pit, arena, and many others. There are too few of them for me in totalmix fx.

Re: Babyface first gen : Line level / microphone level input.

Also reaper records my voice with the totalmix reverb applied on it . I don't want that.

Strangely enough, it works without latency because I have set 64 samples in "fireface usb settings", but in reaper the settings indicate that I'm using Wave out with 1024 samples as buffer size :

Really I don't know what I'm doing, just trying some stuff, hopping something doesn't blow.

Here are my settings in totalmix fx : :https://i.ibb.co/cwq2qP5/reverb-enregistr-e-par-reaper.png

And here are my settings in reaper :
https://i.ibb.co/x52HH6f/settings-reaper-avec-reverb-enregistr-e-par-reaper.png