1 Topic by zarfld (edited by zarfld 2021-12-22 00:27:52)

  • Registered: 2021-12-17
  • Posts: 4

Topic: DIGIface AVB - no playback on endpoints when connected using Switch

Hello RME Forum :-)

I'm Domink and quite new in using AVB. I try to setup my audionetwork using a Netgear GS724Tv4 with EAV-License active.

the related Ports g17, g18, g19 & g20 were setup with help of section "Manually enable AVB protocols for AVnu compliance" of https://support.biamp.com/Tesira/AVB/Up … tification

DSCP-Mapping was done based on that table:
https://support.luminex.be/portal/en/kb … ping-table

i have also an connected an AVB-capable StageBox ( StudioLive 32R) and an mixing console (StudioLive 32SC) to that switch.

the problem i have in this configuration i do not get an AVB-Signal to any of those Devices.
When checking with Hive AVDECC or even "RME AVB Controller" it does not show any problems (all "green")

What works is:
- StageBox and Mixer CAN get their Signal with this setup.
- i can also get signals from mixer and stagebox to the PC so that i can see their  inputslevels in TotalMix
- i can send Audio from DigiFace to Mixer or stagebox if they are connected directly (it just doesn't work if i use the switch)


so i assume that it is related to the switch (tried already several options, Newest Firmware and the old one mentioned on that BIAMP-page) but i can't figure out what is wrong.


I hope someone of you can provide some hints on this

BR from Austria

Dominik

System:  Windows10 / SupermicroX8DA6 & Xeon X5680

  • Marc S
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  • Registered: 2019-06-11
  • Posts: 110

Re: DIGIface AVB - no playback on endpoints when connected using Switch

Hi Dominik,

the Netgear GS724 series AVB implementation is ancient, I'm not even sure they do firmware updates anymore?
Mine is sitting somewhere in a corner collecting dust. To be honest - even directly after buying it like, 7?, years ago, I wasn't able to  get a stable setup.

Recently, Netgear released a new range of AVB-capable switches, the M4250 series, which are so much easier to set up and, that's the important part, AVnu certified. That means it has been successfully tested by the AVnu alliance, the industry organisation behind AVB/TSN/Milan. Unfortunately, Netgear decided to (still) charge a premium for the license. Nonetheless, this will save you countless hours of time otherwise needed to setup the ancient GS724 switch.

If you don't need that many ports, the Presonus switch might be worth a look as well, so is the Gigacore series from Luminex.

Best regards
Marc

--- post ends here. don't read below ---

If you really, really want to go down that road...
First check the counters in Hive. Is the Digiface sending frames? Do all devices have the same Grandmaster?
After that, fire up Wireshark and capture communication between Digiface and Switch. Are there any SRP errors? Talker failed propably?
If that doesn't yield any results, I'd set up a mirror port on the GS724 and monitor the entire communication between the Presonus and Digiface with Wireshark. Take a look if AVTP packets make it through, again analyse if there are any SRP errors.

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-12-22 12:25:30)

  • ramses
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  • Registered: 2012-10-14
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Re: DIGIface AVB - no playback on endpoints when connected using Switch

I just had a look because I didn't know about these new product line of Netgear, am usually a Cisco guy (but i fear they are too expensive because of the many features they usually have).

When looking for 1 switch for PCs and Audio Equipment: this one looks nice, not "cheap" though but good feature set.
https://www.computeruniverse.net/de/p/9 … mp;agt=288
https://www.netgear.com/de/business/wir … /msm4214x/

It offers:
- 12 x 2.5Gbit ports for the connection of more modern PCs
- two SFP+ uplink ports for e.g. connecting a NAS via OM3/4 fiber through 10G ports (to get throughput), you need to buy a SFP module for that purpose but are flexible in terms of what bandwidth and whether single or multimode fiber.
- ports at the rear which is I think perfect for an AVB rig where most cables are at the back

At such speeds / amount of ports fanless switch doesn't seem to be possible when I looked a couple of month ago, but this switch has at least here is at least a silent mode without fans under these conditions:
- 25 °C surrounding temperature and
- only 4x 2.5G ports in use.

And its manageable which I personally regard as a plus, but tastes are different..

If you buy something like an enterprise grade switch .. everything which is a little bit more expensive .. do not forget to look for End of Life and End of support information from the vendor. Also with Cisco Switches you have several differend EoX statements and it would be bad not to get any support anymore as MarcS told or which might be the situation for you with your old Netgear switch.

@MarcS, or do you know a compareable Cisco switch which is not too expensive ? Or another brand also with such a "silent mode", because normal LAN switches fans can be brutal in terms of noise.

Another valid approach can be to buy only an AVB certified switch for less money and make another switch to your central switch. Most AVB equipment has two LAN ports. Maybe its possible to connect one "leg" to the AVB/audio infrastructure and to perform remote management over the second "leg".

@MarcS, would that e.g. be possible with the 12Mic ??
12Mic - LAN port 1 ---------------> AVB Switch with a few ports for audio purpose only
          - LAN port 2 ---------------> LAN switch to manage 12Mic from your "office LAN" with internet access

Then it could be an advantage to get a fanless silent / cheaper AVB switch only for that purpose and to either connect this smaller switch to your other LAN switch (I would put it into a different VLAN only for audio purposes). Then you can, if you want route with a VLAN capable Router or Maybe you have a L3-switch or - what was my question to MarcS - connect your AVB equipment two an AUDIO/AVB and office LAN.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2021-12-17
  • Posts: 4

Re: DIGIface AVB - no playback on endpoints when connected using Switch

Thanks for your responses

(sidenote: there is actually new firmware 6.3.1.39 released in october this year)

As i have to live with that switch for now, i will try to get support on netgear side also.
Maybe i will not solve the problem but hopefully learn about that topic.

(based on your hints - after  i can find AECP-Timeouts&Retries counters increasing on the presonus Entities, and in DigiFace InputStreams the Counters for "Media Unlocked")

for the long term i will get an smaller AVB-Capable switch (but i need to save some money first) - as long as i still get updates for the netgear i can still use it for "office" network.

BR
Dominik

  • Marc S
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  • Posts: 110

Re: DIGIface AVB - no playback on endpoints when connected using Switch

@MarcS, would that e.g. be possible with the 12Mic ??
12Mic - LAN port 1 ---------------> AVB Switch with a few ports for audio purpose only
          - LAN port 2 ---------------> LAN switch to manage 12Mic from your "office LAN" with internet access

Yes, that's possible. Just make sure you have a DHCP server on your office LAN (which is usually the case).
Per design, IPv4LL ("auto ip"/"bonjour") can only be active on one port (and we chose the primary port for obvious reasons).

@zarfld

Interesting. Maybe I have to dust off my GST247? But I'm not sure if it's a v4, maybe v3 only?

AECP Timeouts aren't serious really. Most probably the CPU is not able to keep up with the burst of messages. That's what the retry mechanism is there for.

Media Unlocked depends on your media clocking structure being correct, who is clock master in your system?

What about the output stream's frames tx counter?

6 Reply by zarfld (edited by zarfld 2021-12-22 16:44:09)

  • Registered: 2021-12-17
  • Posts: 4

Re: DIGIface AVB - no playback on endpoints when connected using Switch

Interesting. Maybe I have to dust off my GST247? But I'm not sure if it's a v4, maybe v3 only?

https://kb.netgear.com/000063825/GS716T … n-6-3-1-39


Media Unlocked depends on your media clocking structure being correct, who is clock master in your system?

GrandMasterID of all Entities is similar to the EntityID of the RME-Digiface. (before i had set Local ClockPriorities on the switch to 248, 250 - in case i set the prio t0 246 for Clock1 then it changes to Switch - but doesn't seem to influence the problem)

currently the Clockmaster is StudioLiveSC (as it is the most active device in network).

What about the output stream's frames tx counter?

on Digiface STREAM_OUTPUT.0: Stream(1)

Stream Start: 0
Stream Stop: 0
Media Reset: 0
Timestamp Uncertain: 0
Frames TX: 0

assuming that means nothing was sent so far ?


Streaming Wait: No
Class B: No
Saved State: No
...  
Talker Failed: No
Last Flags Received: 0xA0000000 (MsrpAccLatValid | StreamFormatValid)
Stream Flags Ex:  0x001EB74F (Registering)  
Probing Status: 0x00 (Disabled)
Acmp Status: 0x06 (Talker Exclusive)

is my interpretation right that the stream is not even registerd yet?

on the Streams for the Presonus devices this parameters have "No Value", but provide some Stream Information

...  
Talker Failed: No
Last Flags Received: 0xF2000000 (StreamVlanIDValid | StreamDestMacValid | MsrpAccLatValid | StreamIDValid | StreamFormatValid)
Stream Dest Address: 91:E0:F0:00:7B:8E
Stream ID: 0x000A920190AF0001
Stream Vlan ID: 2
  • Registered: 2021-12-17
  • Posts: 4

Re: DIGIface AVB - no playback on endpoints when connected using Switch

Hi,

just got an Presonus SWE-5 to replace the netgear switch.

after that the problem not reproducible

8 Reply by damarco (edited by damarco 2022-02-03 15:13:30)

  • Registered: 2022-01-23
  • Posts: 27

Re: DIGIface AVB - no playback on endpoints when connected using Switch

ramses wrote:

When looking for 1 switch for PCs and Audio Equipment: this one looks nice, not "cheap" though but good feature set.
https://www.computeruniverse.net/de/p/9 … mp;agt=288
https://www.netgear.com/de/business/wir … /msm4214x/

You will probably not be happy with the devices. I don't understand the manufacturer. Advertises a product for whose properties you have to pay extra and you get -> "IEEE 802.1AS-2011 gPTP, IEEE 802.1Qav-2009 FQTSS, IEEE 802.1Qat-2010 MSRP, IEEE 802.1ak MMRP, IEEE
802.1ak MVRP"

Current version is IEEE802.1AS-2020

IEEE 1588 (section 10 and 11.5) PTPv2 Transparent
Clock (TC) End-to-End implementation considering
the residence time of PTPv2 packets from ingress to
egress
•  1-step Transparent Clock mode, using the residence time of the PPTPv2 packet at the egress port level in
Standalone mode, or Stack Master only
•  The "Sync" & "Delay_Req" fields of passing/egressing out PTPv2 packets are updated with the residence
time in the switch, the other fields in PTPv2 packets ("Announce", "Delay_Resp", "Pdelay_Req" and "Pdelay_
Resp") are not updated

No boundary clock !

You need a license to activate the following functions. For around €250 a year!

802.1AS,
802.1Qav,
802.1Qat MSRP,
802.1ak MMRP,
802.1ak MVRP

I find it impossible for manufacturers to advertise such devices as AVB capable.