1 Topic by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-02-12 04:13:22)

  • From: Hongkong
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Topic: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

Suddenly I cannot have a clear mind ... I understands that "Loudness" can set starting at say -20dB, at phones out, it is simple and clear, but at "Line Out" with Auto ref on, which is best for "Loudness", which figure at the screen to see if I lower 20dB to start the "Loudness"? the "dBr" one?

https://i.ibb.co/64p7v7v/IMG-4784.jpg

At current state, it is -5.0dBr, so if I turn it down to -20dBr, "Loudness" will fully function?

And I remember, could be MC or other member(s) said "Loudness" start at lower than -0dB slighty, so it already function at my -5.0dBr if "Loudness" set to on?

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  • ramses
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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

The configuration of loudness for phones or main out is basically the same following the explanations of the manual.
Look what your usual listening level is and the value for low vol ref is 20dB less.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-02-11 17:02:10)

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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

ramses wrote:

The configuration of loudness for phones or main out is basically the same following the explanations of the manual.
Look what your usual listening level is and the value for low vol ref is 20dB less.

Ramses, I understand it in general.

My question is, at Line Out, like the photo shown, if I turn the VOL down to -20dBr from existing -5dBr, the loudness will kick in?

Edit: Because I want to use the RME as main VOL control and left the AMP pre-amp volume fixed.

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  • ramses
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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

The manual says clearly that loudness kicks in slowly over a range of 20dB.
If your normal listening level is -5, then low vol vol ref is -5 - -20 = -25
Loudness starts then at -5 and will ramp up to its configured maximum 20db later at -25.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

ramses wrote:

The manual says clearly that loudness kicks in slowly over a range of 20dB.
If your normal listening level is -5, then low vol vol ref is -5 - -20 = -25
Loudness starts then at -5 and will ramp up to its configured maximum 20db later at -25.

I see, so no matter it is at -5.0dBr or any VOL as my normal listening level, the low vol ref setting value is the kick in point relative to normal listening vol.

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  • ramses
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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

Still not clear ??
Example low vol ref = -25

+6 - -5 no loudness at all
-5 - -25 increasing loudness over a range of 20dB (** low vol ref is the point where max loudness level shall be **)
-25 ... infinity ... maximum loudness settings as parametrized

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-02-11 17:43:31)

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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

ramses wrote:

Still not clear ??
Example low vol ref = -25

+6 - -5 no loudness at all
-5 - -25 increasing loudness over a range of 20dB (** low vol ref is the point where max loudness level shall be **)
-25 ... infinity ... maximum loudness settings as parametrized

No, clear already.
I was thinking how to write to you to express what I got from post 4.

Now comes my understanding:

The low vol ref value is a minus value from 0dB of the main VOL, for example, my current VOL is -5dBr, then the Loudness will kick in at -20dBr, if I want 20dB apart from the VOL, I need to set the low vol ref to -25dB, right?

If I set low vol ref to -20dB, it will kick in at -20dBr VOL, correct?

Or just simply understand as, the low vol ref setting is a minus value from 0dB(r), variable and depends on where the user wants it to kick in.

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8 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-02-11 18:19:59)

  • KaiS
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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

Johannes AU wrote:

If I set low vol ref to -20dB, it will kick in at -20dBr VOL, correct?.

No, it will kick in just below 0 dBr then.

Loudness always kicks in 20 dB ABOVE Low Vol Reference, no matter if dB or dBr (with Auto Reference Level off or on)
At Low Vol Reference it reaches it’s maximum effect.


You can have different setting for Headphones- and Line Out.
They are switched by plugging the headphones.

The actual VOL Dial value while you set Low Vol Reference doesn’t make a difference, the setting is absolute, not relative.

KaiS's Website

9 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2022-02-11 19:51:05)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

Jo,

Not much to add to the comments of Ramses, and KaiS.  Maybe another users "typical" Vol setting used in example might also help you better understand.

Ex:   My typical Vol Setting is -15dBr.   Where did I set my
Low Vol Ref?

Hmm.  Let's see...

-15-20= -35!!! 

If you guessed -35, you'd be exactly correct!   smile

So, when my listening level is at -35vol, my Loudness is in full effect, and compensating maximally.   As I increase upward my Listening Level, the Loudness compensation is gradually taken away with each little increase in my listening level until it no longer needed, and no compensation is applied at all. 

Dynamic Loudness is a fine functionality, and RME's implementation of it might be the FIRST time "loudness" was ever done properly in an audio product.

Have fun

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

10 Reply by Jperkins (edited by Jperkins 2022-02-11 20:01:25)

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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

Overall this is a cool feature but I wish you could set the treble value to 0 and only use bass compensation. I seemed to only be able to dial the treble value to 1.

11 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-02-11 20:20:06)

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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

Jperkins wrote:

Overall this is a cool feature but I wish you could set the treble value to 0 and only use bass compensation. I seemed to only be able to dial the treble value to 1.

Maybe setting T to -1 would help (1 - 1 = 0)

But I could only find the value for T in the manual: 6.5kHz and Q=0.7,
not how Treble of Loudness is parametrized, maybe its somewhere in a graph...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

12 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-02-12 05:36:51)

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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

Good Morning fom Hongkong.

Ramses, Yeah, got a clear picture.
Low vol ref value setting is that variable plus the VOL variable. eg. if my VOL is -7.5dB, and want Loudness works at its max when lower further 20dB of VOL, then low vol ref should set at: (-7.5)+(-20)= -27.5.:)

KaiS, thank you for confirm that it starts below 0dB and goes to max effect at -20dB. smile

Curt, I am a dumb old man and sometimes mess up myself. tongue

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13 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-02-12 05:40:35)

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Re: Loudness Low Vol Ref question (Solved)

Thank you gentlemen, I ask the question in first place and mess up, because, I thought at my VOL -5.0dB, loudness already in effect and max when I lower VOL to -20dB, so I puzzled if I need to set the low vol ref 5dB more. Now is clear and solved.

Stupid me ... If I ask "Is the low vol ref corresponds to 0dB at all outputs?", this page will be much shorter .... tongue

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