1 Topic by Waltong (edited by Waltong 2022-03-02 19:34:17)

  • Registered: 2019-03-22
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Topic: MIDI over RME DAC?: My Quest for accurate and expressive rhythm

I have been frustrated for years with the MIDI captured performances that I play and record in real time (unquantized) within the DAW. The feel and engaging quality of rhythm VIA MIDI in the DAW is not the same as using a simple recorder to capture a realtime performance of a Casio keyboard in the open air.

I have come to understand this is due to a host of issues, especially related to Jitter and MIDI timing drift. So here are a few of my proposed solutions/questions.

Given I have a Babyface Pro:
1) Would the Steadyclock help with MIDI jitter correction when using the MIDI Input of the RME DAC?
2) Would the Steadyclock FS be even superior for jitter free master clock in relation to MIDI?
3) As a result of bypassing the MIDI USB driver implementation of my external instrument and using the Legacy DIN, is there a limit to the amount of polyphonic notes that I can play and still maintain accurate timing?

I am so determined to achieve accurate expression of my performance of rhythm that I am willing to record the VSTi directly to audio with only using the MIDI as a trigger. If I have to do this one note at a time to achieve accurate record of my rhythmic expression and layer each track, I will do it.

What are folks thoughts?

  • waedi
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Re: MIDI over RME DAC?: My Quest for accurate and expressive rhythm

Steady clock, FS and Jitter is all related to the analog / digital audio converter and has no influence on Midi.
1 no
2 no
3 no limit other than by your DAW
Your problems seems to be related to the DAW.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by Waltong (edited by Waltong 2022-03-03 03:55:43)

  • Registered: 2019-03-22
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Re: MIDI over RME DAC?: My Quest for accurate and expressive rhythm

But how does the MIDI I/O timing on the RME babyface pro compare to the products that are dedicated MIDI interfaces? Would it be fair to say it is better to use the MIDI DIN of the RME rather than USB from an external instrument which is reliant on a separate driver hosted by Windows to sync into the DAW and RME DAC?

I would think the master clock of the RME which is tracking the timing on the audio and DAW would be the ideal way to host the MIDI for passing the most accurate timing to the DAW.

4 Reply by mkok (edited by mkok 2022-03-03 09:28:38)

  • mkok
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Re: MIDI over RME DAC?: My Quest for accurate and expressive rhythm

Midi is not related to the audio at all. The midi on the Babyface is still over usb as are other midi interfaces. What I wouldn’t use is one of those cheap midi interfaces which are not reliable. Any midi interface from a reputable manufacturer is fine.

I use the Babyface pro fs midi interface to plug my keyboard in but my Roland td30 drums I use midi over the td30 usb interface. I don’t see any difference.

You are going down the wrong track with your thinking. Maybe read up a bit on the midi protocol.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.
  • waedi
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Re: MIDI over RME DAC?: My Quest for accurate and expressive rhythm

Waltong wrote:

But how does the MIDI I/O timing on the RME babyface pro compare to the products that are dedicated MIDI interfaces? Would it be fair to say it is better to use the MIDI DIN of the RME rather than USB from an external instrument which is reliant on a separate driver hosted by Windows to sync into the DAW and RME DAC?

I would think the master clock of the RME which is tracking the timing on the audio and DAW would be the ideal way to host the MIDI for passing the most accurate timing to the DAW.

I can follow your logic and agree. But there is a lot of bottleneck.
Is the keyboard internal midi architectur accurat on the DIN or is there a lot software in between ?
I would do tests for both ways.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

6 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2022-03-03 10:16:48)

  • vinark
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Re: MIDI over RME DAC?: My Quest for accurate and expressive rhythm

A simple experiment. Record a performance of you playing a VSTi, both as midi and audio. Then play back, do they feel the same midi and audio or very different timing wise? Then render the midi track to audio, then compare the transients, is the timing really different and if yes how much? 1ms 10ms? Can you identify the audio one in a blind test?
Do open yourself to the possibility that the problem is in your mind, might be that performing and the listening are different experiences.

I use midi always and for like 30 years. I really trust RME midi and my Steinberg midex 8.

You don't mention, DAW, OS, what VSTi, What type of sounds< what style so we are flying blind

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632