Topic: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

Hi everyone, this is my first post as I need some advice smile

I own three digital classic organs and, to improve the overall sound performance, I route the dry sound of the instruments into an audio card, apple mainstage, reverb (multiple instances), headphones out.

Two instruments have 12 output channels and the third, newly delivered, has 20.

So far I managed the 12 inputs of the first two organs by 1) using a fireface 400 + fireface ucx II (aggregate device on Mac) and 2) a fireface ufx+.

The third instruments has 20 output channels and, since I need to buy new equipment to connect it to the Mac, I was wondering what would be the best solution. Shall I combine again two cards, maybe through adat to reduce the latency caused by the aggregate device, or maybe an audio card + an AD converter?

I need to tell you that I am not a super expert in audio equipment…

Thanks to anyone who would give me some advice! smile

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

The cleanest solution in my opinion (both audio wise and stability wise) would be to add on to your UFX+ via MADI. The RME M32 Pro DA will add 32 matched hi quality outputs to your existing channels, and via MADI connection this works for sample rates up to 96 kHz.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

3 (edited by DigitalOrganist 2022-03-17 21:35:34)

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

Jeff wrote:

The cleanest solution in my opinion (both audio wise and stability wise) would be to add on to your UFX+ via MADI. The RME M32 Pro DA will add 32 matched hi quality outputs to your existing channels, and via MADI connection this works for sample rates up to 96 kHz.

Thanks Jeff, the channels are going from the analogue outputs of the organ to the Mac, so I suppose I should buy an M32 pro AD. But since the ufx+ is already connected to one instrument, I need to buy the complete equipment new, so an audio card and an expansion. I am also looking to keep the equipment as little voluminous as possible because I need to arrange it into the organ console case and there is not so much space…

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

OK, I misunderstood. Could you explain a little more about the system? Is this all just processing 3 instruments on one Mac? I don't quite get what you're doing with 3 different RME interfaces.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

Sure, will explain better. The three instruments are located in three different places in my house and are all independent from one another. Each instrument is connected to a different Mac and has its own audio system. When I started to apply an external reverb system to the first organ, I already had a fireface400 (pretty old but still perfectly functioning) and needed to add some inputs to receive the 12 available outputs of the organ. I bought an ucx II and set up an aggregate device. It works very well, latency is acceptable for live playing. I applied the same concept to the second instrument but this time I bought the ufx+ with 12 analogue inputs to match straight away the 12 outputs of the organ too. Now, with the new organ, the third, I need 20 inputs because the instrument has 20 analogue outputs. Hence my request for advice about the best solution. Hope this makes sense.

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

Can you state the sample rate you need? For example 24 channels are possible with a digiface USB but only at 44 or 48k.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

7 (edited by DigitalOrganist 2022-03-18 04:30:35)

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

vinark wrote:

Can you state the sample rate you need? For example 24 channels are possible with a digiface USB but only at 44 or 48k.

The maximum sample rate I use is 48k, so the digiface usb should be ok. Should I then couple it with the m32AD? Budgetwise it’s like buying two UFX II so I wonder what solution would be best. Is it correct to assume that digiface usb + m32AD would be more stable and reliable and two UFX II would be more flexible (should I use the same equipment for other purposes in future)?.

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

You can use any also non RME AD you want that has adat out. SO also 4 cheap adat ccoverters. But 2 UFX would also work and be stable.
With what do you do the mixdown and add reverb? The digiface has totalmix but no FX.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

vinark wrote:

You can use any also non RME AD you want that has adat out. SO also 4 cheap adat ccoverters. But 2 UFX would also work and be stable.
With what do you do the mixdown and add reverb? The digiface has totalmix but no FX.

I use Apple Mainstage for live performances, Logic Pro for recordings and I add reverb with different plugins, mainly from Liquidsonics

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

What are your audio quality needs? How good are the analog outs of the organ? Is money an issue or only quality. With the digiface you have rme driver quality, but also with 2 ufx. Possebilties are to endless...

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

vinark wrote:

What are your audio quality needs? How good are the analog outs of the organ? Is money an issue or only quality. With the digiface you have rme driver quality, but also with 2 ufx. Possebilties are to endless...

I have spent an important amount of money for the last instrument and therefore I do not want to save a few bucks and risk to compromise the quality of the whole chain. I do not know the specifics of the analogue outputs of the organ but I doubt it uses esoteric DAs. For my first organ, initially, I used a presonus card and was not particularly impressed with it, everything sounded kind of muffled. Then I bought the UCX II and I could perceive a clear improvement in sound quality. But sometimes I also wonder how much objectivity is there in my personal evaluations and what role expectations play on a device that costs much more and must sound, accordingly, much better. I like RME because my fireface400, bought back in 2008, has been rock solid ever since, so I also like the reliability of a device after the initial installation. When I switch on one of my instruments I just like to play, not think about failing drivers, components and so on.

Now it seems to me that setting up an RME system with 20 channels will cost minimum 3500/4000 euros which is not little money. At the same time I would not like to spend half that money and then regret the purchase because of poor performance.

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

I have a second UCX II that I use with my video editing pc. If I buy the m32 ad pro, can I connect it directly to the Ethernet port of the Mac and use it as input device and then use the UCX II as output device? Latency-wise would that be a good solution for live performance?

13 (edited by DigitalOrganist 2022-03-23 18:37:59)

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

So, in order not to let this post hanging without a final answer, I would like to close it by saying that I bought a M32 AD PRO and a MADIFACE XT. All works fine.
Thanks to those who tried to understand the ‘weird’ needs of an organist who clearly does not know much about audio equipment.
All the best.

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

Glad to hear you found a MADIface XT, and all is working well!

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: 20 analog channels for digital organ, best solution?

Yes, got both from Music Network AG in CH, and I suppose the Madiface xt was the last piece on stock smile