1 Topic by harmamusic (edited by harmamusic 2022-03-27 16:06:22)

  • Registered: 2014-12-27
  • Posts: 31

Topic: Using Strymon Pedals with hw outputs/inputs of FF400 (Loop)

I've been experimenting with a Strymon Flint going from FF400 HW output 5/6 with a 2x mono to TRS cable into it's INPUT (setting internal switch to stereo input) and running it back into HW inputs 5/6 of the FF400 again.
I noticed that the output of the Flint is very soft and that I can't raise the HW output 5/6 on TotalMix too high otherwise the input of the Flint is probably overrun and it's starting to squeel. So this maybe has to do with instrument level inputs on the Flint and line level from the FF400? Maybe the Flint is best designed to used in front of an amp and in front of the FF400 inputs?

I noticed that the newer Strymon Night Sky has a switch to select between line and instrument INPUT.
Would the Night Sky work better in a FF400 "loop" like mentioned before with the Flint?

Strymon mentions on their website that all their devices can be used with instrument and line levels:
Do your DSP-driven pedals handle both instrument and line levels?
Yes, they feature high-impedance inputs and accept up to +8dBu, instrument or line level.

So why did they introduce a Line/Instrument switch then on the Night Sky?
The manual mentions:
INPUT MODE
Sets the input level to the effect processing. Use INST for guitars or instruments with lower output. Setting to LINE adds 10dB of clean
headroom. Use LINE input mode with synthesizers, amplifier and mixer effects loops, or guitar rigs with high output levels if more clean headroom is desired.


Some additional questions:

- Has someone here used a Big Sky, Night Sky, Flint or other Strymon device in a loop of an RME soundcard (HW OUT and back HW IN like I tried)? Which outputs/inputs worked best?

- Has anyone connected the Flint as I tried and experience better results?
  Maybe it's better to connect the Flint back thru INPUT 3/4 and use the Pad switches?

- If I would buy a Night Sky and connect the Flint after it, both in a FF400 loop would that work better and also would the Flint work with the OUTPUT of the Night Sky?


BTW, I'm using Neural DSP amp plugins and with higher gain I'd like to place the Flint's reverb and tremolo after the amps. That's why I'm trying to connect them in a loop with the FF400.

Strymon pedals have an:
Input Impedance - 1Meg Ohm
Output Impedance - 100 Ohm

Thanks for your help!

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,435

Re: Using Strymon Pedals with hw outputs/inputs of FF400 (Loop)

You did not set the FF400 hardware levels so that it best matches the FX unit?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2014-12-27
  • Posts: 31

Re: Using Strymon Pedals with hw outputs/inputs of FF400 (Loop)

MC wrote:

You did not set the FF400 hardware levels so that it best matches the FX unit?

I have the levels on high so should probably change that.

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,863

Re: Using Strymon Pedals with hw outputs/inputs of FF400 (Loop)

harmamusic wrote:
MC wrote:

Yoiu did not set the FF400 hardware levels so that it best matches the FX unit?

I have the levels on high so should probably change that.

Regarding reference levels: if the
- effect needs a higher input signal then choose a higher reference level on the FF400's outputs.
- input signal on the FF400 inputs is too low, then you need to choose a lower reference level on it's inputs.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

5 Reply by harmamusic (edited by harmamusic 2022-03-28 08:50:10)

  • Registered: 2014-12-27
  • Posts: 31

Re: Using Strymon Pedals with hw outputs/inputs of FF400 (Loop)

ramses wrote:
harmamusic wrote:
MC wrote:

You did not set the FF400 hardware levels so that it best matches the FX unit?

I have the levels on high so should probably change that.

Regarding reference levels: if the
- effect needs a higher input signal then choose a higher reference level on the FF400's outputs.
- input signal on the FF400 inputs is too low, then you need to choose a lower reference level on it's inputs.


Thanks for clarifying that. I've set them both to +4Db now (instead of high). I think I overloaded the input of the Strymon Flint so the output of the FF400 should be set to +4Db or even -10. Will experiment.
I'm also going to experiment by connecting the FF400 to my Babyface Pro FS on my MBP M1 to see if I can get the ADAT connections working. That way I can use my FF400 to connect digital devices and use these on my MBP.

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,863

Re: Using Strymon Pedals with hw outputs/inputs of FF400 (Loop)

It's much likely that the strymon uses consumer levels if there is no switch between
- consumer level (-10 dBV)
- studio level (+4 dBu)

To not overload the consumer level input of the strymon you need to set the FF400 hw output to consumer level, not to overload it and to be able to move the fader closer to 0dB output level.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2014-12-27
  • Posts: 31

Re: Using Strymon Pedals with hw outputs/inputs of FF400 (Loop)

ramses wrote:

It's much likely that the strymon uses consumer levels if there is no switch between
- consumer level (-10 dBV)
- studio level (+4 dBu)

To not overload the consumer level input of the strymon you need to set the FF400 hw output to consumer level, not to overload it and to be able to move the fader closer to 0dB output level.

That’s certainly possible. The Strymon Night Sky has a switch for instrument and line levels. The line level adds 10db.
I will ask Strymon how to best connect the Flint and which levels it’s working best.

Thanks again!

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-03-28 11:23:26)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,863

Re: Using Strymon Pedals with hw outputs/inputs of FF400 (Loop)

The UFX II is not a guitar/instrument, use line level.

> The line level adds 10db.
you forget to add "of headroom" (see manual excerpt below).
This sounds to me that you can use a stronger input signals with line level compared to an instruments output.
The UFX with line levels certainly has more output compared to guitar pickup ....

According to the strymon manual:

INPUT MODE
Sets the input level to the effect processing.
Use INST for guitars or instruments with lower output.
Setting to LINE adds 10dB of clean headroom.
Use LINE input mode with synthesizers, amplifier and mixer effects loops,
or guitar rigs with high output levels if more clean headroom is desired.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2014-12-27
  • Posts: 31

Re: Using Strymon Pedals with hw outputs/inputs of FF400 (Loop)

It's now working a lot better with the BabyfaceProFS via ADAT into the RME FF400 routing the Strymon. The FF400 is now set to -10Db (consumer level). If I receive the Night Sky I will check which setting works best for that.

I also found out about a Cubase (11) feature for configuring External Effects which is much easier to route external effects via an Effects track.