1 Topic by blinky (edited by blinky 2022-03-31 05:38:47)

  • blinky
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Topic: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

Hi guys, I really love these units. The RME and the Ferrofish work fantastically together.

I do have one question though, I hope someone can help me with:

I use the Pulse 16 to add i/o to my Fireface. The extra i/o lets me add monitors, hardware EQ, hardware compressors, preamps etc.

They all work very well.

In music production I route my stereo/ master mix out of my DAW via the Pulse 16 into a hardware stereo compressor (Daking Fet 3) and then back into the Fireface. I do this naturally because I want to tame any peaks, to gel the song nicely and to add a certain amount of volume to the overall mix.

I see that the stereo signal out of my DAW via the Fireface into the Pulse 16 is a mild volume. The signal in the Pulse shows in green led bars. However the stereo signal coming ot of the compressor (after make up gain) and back into the Fireface (and back into my DAW) shows that the signal is always in the red...hitting up at the "0" level.

I wonder if this is to be avoided?? Am I adding too much make up gain??

Should the signal coming back via the Pulse (after compression and make up gain) to the Fireface always be in the green and yellow...and never hit the red? (Basically the incoming signal is red-lining...always hitting 0. I fear it is going digitally over!!

Should I make sure the incoming signal does not hit the red?

I hope you get my meaning.

Thanks

Fireface UFX II, Babyface Pro, Windows 10, Studio One 5

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-03-31 06:51:38)

  • ramses
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

Have you ever checked the reference level settings on UFX II and Ferro ?

If the Ferro's output signal is still ok, then choose a higher reference level at the UFX II's analog input, which will give you more headroom.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • vinark
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

Right, set the reference levels properly! And yes you are having digital overs, which you should not. If your analog compressor has make up gain you can also dial it back a little if reference level does not help or is already set correctly.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
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  • ramses
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

Yup, but he should use proper reference levels in the 1st place and not try to mitigate/solve this inside of the compressor.
Not that he gets too high or low levels inside of the compressor, which also makes no sense.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • vinark
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

I said right set the reference levels first. Then confirmed overs are never ok as he asked.
Cheers Ramses!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
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  • blinky
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

ramses wrote:

Have you ever checked the reference level settings on UFX II and Ferro ?

If the Ferro's output signal is still ok, then choose a higher reference level at the UFX II's analog input, which will give you more headroom.

I guess I have not really. Is that to do with "Low Gain" and "+4" on the Fireface??

All signals in and out of the Pulse 16 appear to always be in the green. But the incoming signal from the Pulse to the Fireface is always red.

The Daking FET 3 compressor that I use has +11db of gain possible for makeup gain. I often use all 11db to bring my song up to a good level.

Is there a way in the Fireface to configure the reference level to account for the signal coming in from the Pulse 16?

Thanks

Fireface UFX II, Babyface Pro, Windows 10, Studio One 5

7 Reply by blinky (edited by blinky 2022-04-03 00:32:02)

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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

So, I just checked in TotalMix and all of the 8 inputs are set to "Lo Gain".

I am guessing that I should set them to "+4dBu". Right?

Also, I notice in the Fireface manual that it says about the Analog Inputs:

"A reference level of -10dBV can be set by using +4dBu and adding 9dB of gain with the Gain Knob in the TotalMix FX channel settings"

So...should I do that? Should I set all the Hardware/ Analog Inputs to +4dBu AND set the channel gain to 9dB?

(Please note: All Hardware Outputs in TotalMix are set to +4dBu.)

Thanks if you can help.

EDIT: So, I can confirm that in the Pulse 16, the Analog Output indicates that with +11db makeup on the hardware compressor, the signal never gets above -6db according to the Pulse 16 display. This seems to mean to me that the signal is not too crazy loud. It's always in the green on the Pulse 16 display. However, when the signal enters the Fireface, the AN 1/2 input always shows that the signal is slamming into the red and constantly going over.

I just tried setting the Fireface UFXII Hardware inputs to +4 (without raising Gain to 9dB) and the incoming signal was slammed absolutely into the red much more so than when I had it set to Lo Gain.

Even on "Lo Gain" the incoming signal was 90% of the time in the red when using the +11dB Makeup gain on the hardware compressor. I had to take the Makeup gain on the compressor all the way back to only +4dB in order that the Fireface showed a green signal not hitting the red .

I guess this means that in order to achieve proper song volume I need to ultimately use makeup gain using a limiter plugin in my DAW.

I'm confused why the Analog Output in the Pulse 16 display shows peaks of -6db...but the AN 1/2 input in the Fireface shows constant overs and constant red lining.

EDIT 2: I just noticed that the Pulse 16 Analog Output display meters do not change whether I am using +4db makeup gain out of the hardware compressor or whether I use +11db makeup gain! I have no idea why not. The Daking Fet 3 compressor certainly imparts noticeable gain when the makeup gain is raised...but this is not reflected in the Pulse 16 output display.

So now I guess I am confused about the routing or where the signal is actually passing.

In my mind...I route the full stereo mix out of my DAW Studio One....into the Pulse 16...which then routes the signal into the Daking compressor...it comes out of the Daking compressor back into the Pulse and then the Pulse sends the signal back into my DAW.

Ha! Oh boy. If I raise the makeup gain on the Daking compressor, why  doesn't the Analogue Output display on the Pulse 16 show this??

I'm so sorry for this long winded problem.

Fireface UFX II, Babyface Pro, Windows 10, Studio One 5
  • Registered: 2022-02-20
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

blinky wrote:

So, I just checked in TotalMix and all of the 8 inputs are set to "Lo Gain".

I am guessing that I should set them to "+4dBu". Right?

Also, I notice in the Fireface manual that it says about the Analog Inputs:

"A reference level of -10dBV can be set by using +4dBu and adding 9dB of gain with the Gain Knob in the TotalMix FX channel settings"

So...should I do that? Should I set all the Hardware/ Analog Inputs to +4dBu AND set the channel gain to 9dB?

(Please note: All Hardware Outputs in TotalMix are set to +4dBu.)

Thanks if you can help.

EDIT: So, I can confirm that in the Pulse 16, the Analog Output indicates that with +11db makeup on the hardware compressor, the signal never gets above -6db according to the Pulse 16 display. This seems to mean to me that the signal is not too crazy loud. It's always in the green on the Pulse 16 display. However, when the signal enters the Fireface, the AN 1/2 input always shows that the signal is slamming into the red and constantly going over.

I just tried setting the Fireface UFXII Hardware inputs to +4 (without raising Gain to 9dB) and the incoming signal was slammed absolutely into the red much more so than when I had it set to Lo Gain.

Even on "Lo Gain" the incoming signal was 90% of the time in the red when using the +11dB Makeup gain on the hardware compressor. I had to take the Makeup gain on the compressor all the way back to only +4dB in order that the Fireface showed a green signal not hitting the red .

I guess this means that in order to achieve proper song volume I need to ultimately use makeup gain using a limiter plugin in my DAW.

I'm confused why the Analog Output in the Pulse 16 display shows peaks of -6db...but the AN 1/2 input in the Fireface shows constant overs and constant red lining.

EDIT 2: I just noticed that the Pulse 16 Analog Output display meters do not change whether I am using +4db makeup gain out of the hardware compressor or whether I use +11db makeup gain! I have no idea why not. The Daking Fet 3 compressor certainly imparts noticeable gain when the makeup gain is raised...but this is not reflected in the Pulse 16 output display.

So now I guess I am confused about the routing or where the signal is actually passing.

In my mind...I route the full stereo mix out of my DAW Studio One....into the Pulse 16...which then routes the signal into the Daking compressor...it comes out of the Daking compressor back into the Pulse and then the Pulse sends the signal back into my DAW.

Ha! Oh boy. If I raise the makeup gain on the Daking compressor, why  doesn't the Analogue Output display on the Pulse 16 show this??

I'm so sorry for this long winded problem.

Roughly how much dBu of output is coming out from the Pulse 16? -6db of output in Pulse 16 is higher than +4dBu according to graphs (left side) so it would be quite hot. Are you definitely looking at the 'Analog Levels' screen inside Pulse 16?

And what digital gain settings do you have on AN 1/2?

9 Reply by blinky (edited by blinky 2022-04-04 20:54:50)

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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

unodos wrote:
blinky wrote:

So, I just checked in TotalMix and all of the 8 inputs are set to "Lo Gain".

I am guessing that I should set them to "+4dBu". Right?

Also, I notice in the Fireface manual that it says about the Analog Inputs:

"A reference level of -10dBV can be set by using +4dBu and adding 9dB of gain with the Gain Knob in the TotalMix FX channel settings"

So...should I do that? Should I set all the Hardware/ Analog Inputs to +4dBu AND set the channel gain to 9dB?

(Please note: All Hardware Outputs in TotalMix are set to +4dBu.)

Thanks if you can help.

EDIT: So, I can confirm that in the Pulse 16, the Analog Output indicates that with +11db makeup on the hardware compressor, the signal never gets above -6db according to the Pulse 16 display. This seems to mean to me that the signal is not too crazy loud. It's always in the green on the Pulse 16 display. However, when the signal enters the Fireface, the AN 1/2 input always shows that the signal is slamming into the red and constantly going over.

I just tried setting the Fireface UFXII Hardware inputs to +4 (without raising Gain to 9dB) and the incoming signal was slammed absolutely into the red much more so than when I had it set to Lo Gain.

Even on "Lo Gain" the incoming signal was 90% of the time in the red when using the +11dB Makeup gain on the hardware compressor. I had to take the Makeup gain on the compressor all the way back to only +4dB in order that the Fireface showed a green signal not hitting the red .

I guess this means that in order to achieve proper song volume I need to ultimately use makeup gain using a limiter plugin in my DAW.

I'm confused why the Analog Output in the Pulse 16 display shows peaks of -6db...but the AN 1/2 input in the Fireface shows constant overs and constant red lining.

EDIT 2: I just noticed that the Pulse 16 Analog Output display meters do not change whether I am using +4db makeup gain out of the hardware compressor or whether I use +11db makeup gain! I have no idea why not. The Daking Fet 3 compressor certainly imparts noticeable gain when the makeup gain is raised...but this is not reflected in the Pulse 16 output display.

So now I guess I am confused about the routing or where the signal is actually passing.

In my mind...I route the full stereo mix out of my DAW Studio One....into the Pulse 16...which then routes the signal into the Daking compressor...it comes out of the Daking compressor back into the Pulse and then the Pulse sends the signal back into my DAW.

Ha! Oh boy. If I raise the makeup gain on the Daking compressor, why  doesn't the Analogue Output display on the Pulse 16 show this??

I'm so sorry for this long winded problem.

Roughly how much dBu of output is coming out from the Pulse 16? -6db of output in Pulse 16 is higher than +4dBu according to graphs (left side) so it would be quite hot. Are you definitely looking at the 'Analog Levels' screen inside Pulse 16?

And what digital gain settings do you have on AN 1/2?

How can I determine the dBu output from the Pulse? I'm quite positive I'm looking at the Analog Output on the Pulse display...where the levels are always in the green, maybe in yellow here and there and peaking around -6...db...?

For AN 1/2 on the Fireface I have the setting at "Lo Gain". If I set it to +4 the incoming signal is WAY too loud.

Fireface UFX II, Babyface Pro, Windows 10, Studio One 5

10 Reply by unodos (edited by unodos 2022-04-04 21:39:59)

  • Registered: 2022-02-20
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

In the Pulse 16 manual page 10, it shows the meter on the left-hand screen goes up to +20dBu @ 0 dBFS. At -6dBFS you're just shy of +13dBu.

With Lo Gain set on the UFX+ that gives you about +19dBu of headroom, which should be enough. If you click the channel settings for AN 1/2, is there any digital gain? It's a dial that reads 'Gain'

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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

unodos wrote:

In the Pulse 16 manual page 10, it shows the meter on the left-hand screen goes up to +20dBu @ 0 dBFS. At -6dBFS you're just shy of +13dBu.

With Lo Gain set on the UFX+ that gives you about +19dBu of headroom, which should be enough. If you click the channel settings for AN 1/2, is there any digital gain? It's a dial that reads 'Gain'

Yes there is a digital gain that reads "Gain" as you say. But it is set at 0. Any increase would just make the incoming signal further into the red/ digital overs.

It's confusing to me why the Pulse 16 Analog Out does not appear to change level in its display when I increase or decrease the make up gian on the Daking Compressor. Yet I hear it in my monitors!

I will check the levels set in the Pulse 16 and confirm later. I believe I just have the Pulse set to all default values.

Fireface UFX II, Babyface Pro, Windows 10, Studio One 5
  • blinky
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

Bump...

To just ask again and to simplify...

- Using ADAT to connect Ferrofish Pulse 16 to RME Fireface in order to extend i/o.
- I have an external compressor connected via the Pulse 16 into the Fireface.

The Analog Out display on the Pulse 16 screen shows a signal around -12...however...

The signal in the Fireface Analog In display shows -6.

So there is a 6db difference. And I don't know why.

Hardware Input channels on the Fireface are set to Lo Gain. If I set them to +4 the difference between the signals is even greater. Gain/ Level settings on the Pulse 16 are default.

If the Pulse 16 shows the signal is on average -12db....and that signal goes directly via ADAT to the Fireface...why would the Fireface say that it is -6db?

Thanks for any further help.

Fireface UFX II, Babyface Pro, Windows 10, Studio One 5
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

I'm not entirely sure what's going on here, sorry. I'd drop a message to support https://www.rme-audio.de/support.html

  • blinky
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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

unodos wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what's going on here, sorry. I'd drop a message to support https://www.rme-audio.de/support.html

Appreciate it man. Yeah, I can't understand it. If by the reference levels that ramses mentioned before, it is meant the 'low gain' and the +4...I've tried both those settings.

The +4 makes the signal that comes from the Pulse (that shows -12 in the Pulse Analog Out display) even louder than -6 in the Fireface.

Maybe I will message support.

Fireface UFX II, Babyface Pro, Windows 10, Studio One 5

15 Reply by blinky (edited by blinky 2022-04-19 23:52:38)

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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

Oh boy...

I have to admit something really stupid:

The reason the Fireface indicates a signal incoming 6db higher than what is coming out of the Pulse is because there is 6db makeup gain on the hardware compressor.

Simple as that.

My apologies to all.

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Re: [Solved] RME Fireface UFXII + Ferrofish Pulse 16

excellent! glad you found it, blinky and thanks for reporting back smile