• larst
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Topic: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

A safety guard against automatic changes in volume also on 1/2 when user does the unexpected would be appreciated.

Scenario

- Setting the adi to DSD direct.
- Listening to dsd via external HP-amp, i.e. with external volume control.
- Connecting unit to monitors (for example the next day).
- Forget that DSD direct is choosen.
- Set the adi volume to -50.
- Choose a song in DSD and press Play.
- Bam! Volume at -21 without any warning or volume ramping.

2 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2022-04-09 14:28:47)

  • ning
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

I don't advocate using the DSD direct feature.... people can experiment with it for sure, but shouldn't leave it on, as there's almost no measurable difference in the audible range anyway, unless you have external preamp and listen exclusively DSD. With the case you have, I don't think there's a good way to prevent it without cluttering the screen....

  • larst
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

Thanks for answering ning!

How do you mean that a warning or a volume ramp would cluttering the screen when the unit first let the user set the volume and then changes it abruptly without notice?

The problem is that users do unexpected things, so it doesn't matter much that DSD shouldn't be left on, I left it on, and maybe I will remember to turn it off the next 20 times but not the 21st.

If what you suggest is correct, DSD direct should only be on when listening to DSD, and both playback of other formats and the volume control should be disabled, i.e. force user to turn direct DSD off to be able to listen to pcm. But I think it's more user friendly to just do what I assume is a pretty simple fix to safeguard our equipment and our ears.

  • larst
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

Another example...

using Audirvana I compile a playlist of songs from for example Tidal, Qobuz and local DSD files. If I forget to turn off DSD direct and play the list with songs in different formats and sample rates (what a hideous thing to do, but it can be done :-) ), the volume will automatically change to the fixed DSD volume when changing from a pcm to a dsd track.

  • KaiS
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

larst wrote:

Another example...

using Audirvana I compile a playlist of songs from for example Tidal, Qobuz and local DSD files. If I forget to turn off DSD direct and play the list with songs in different formats and sample rates (what a hideous thing to do, but it can be done :-) ), the volume will automatically change to the fixed DSD volume when changing from a pcm to a dsd track.

But how should ADI-2 handle this:

Mute audio every time it detects a DSD signal, then show a warnings screen until the user takes some action???

Lot of players switch to PCM inbetween two DSD tracks, so this would happen all the time.

Ramping up the volume is impossible with DSD direct, as DSD cannot be processed in any way.
Would yield the same problem anyway.

KaiS's Website

  • larst
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

I guess the Adi must be aware of when it changes volume without user interaction.

  • larst
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

@MC

Two suggestions:

1. Disable playback of pcm when in DSD Direct or..
2. Do not allow volume change  (except for the three different reference levels) for pcm when in DSD Direct.

I think 2 is the best option, in that way the volume value set by the user (the three different choices) is the one used and will not change automatically.

  • ning
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

Don’t think it’s a good idea.

9 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

I also don't like the idea to make the unit more complicate with questionable actions. Basically I would quote the famous 'you are holding it wrong'. If one wants to use DSD Direct then one needs to use an external volume control. Then it is also logical to Lock Volume, and set the Line outputs to a level that matches DSD playback volume. Which then means only the headphones are volume controlled directly at the ADI. That's an expected and working setup.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • larst
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

MC wrote:

I also don't like the idea to make the unit more complicate with questionable actions. Basically I would quote the famous 'you are holding it wrong'. If one wants to use DSD Direct then one needs to use an external volume control. Then it is also logical to Lock Volume, and set the Line outputs to a level that matches DSD playback volume. Which then means only the headphones are volume controlled directly at the ADI. That's an expected and working setup.

Yes, my point is that as a user it's easy to do things wrong, even when knowing how it works!

I think my suggestion makes the unit easier to use, but maybe a bit more complicated for the programmer.

And isn't your own words a proof of that?

Using DSD direct implies locking the volume, so why not help the user? As for know the user both has to remember it and then also do it (yes I know that presets exist, but I think sensible defaults rules them all.), an extra unnecessary step to lock/unlock the volume (one also has to be aware of locking to the volume to one of the three different reference levels).

And don't you agree that every step possible should be taken from RME's side to avoid potential blast of the users ears and equipment?

11 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

I simply don't agree with you that your two suggestions make anything easier. I predict the exact opposite - a support nightmare because the unit does not work as it should. Suddenly no sound - or no volume control. No way, sorry.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • larst
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Re: ADI2pro2fs - Volume ramping on channel 1/2 most wanted.

MC wrote:

I simply don't agree with you that your two suggestions make anything easier. I predict the exact opposite - a support nightmare because the unit does not work as it should. Suddenly no sound - or no volume control. No way, sorry.

Ok, hopefully I managed to explain my user experience and you thought it through and came to a different conclusion, case closed, thanks for answering!